Here is an excellent article covering predestination, Foreknowledge, OSAS, Romans 9, Free will and many other issues that have been distorted by the theologies of men.
This article brings a BIBLICAL view of these issues.
Predestined by God
.
Friday, April 16, 2010
Tuesday, April 13, 2010
Why such a brutal death?
There is a very insightful article on the death of Jesus here:
http://thenface2face.wordpress.com/2010/04/08/the-cross-a-spectacle-of-evil-and-the-triumph-of-love/
http://thenface2face.wordpress.com/2010/04/08/the-cross-a-spectacle-of-evil-and-the-triumph-of-love/
Grace or Man’s Effort: Where does Salvation Start?
I recently came across the claim on a Christian forum, making a distinction between the “true gospel” believed by a particular Calvinist forum participant and the “false gospel” of other forum members:
As is often the case, this Calvinist claim is a total distortion of the facts. Nothing could be further from the truth and it is merely the blind repetition of a clichéd lie.
If the Calvinist claim is a lie, what IS the real belief of the majority of bible believing non-Calvinists?
God and God alone made it possible for man to be saved. God and God alone provided the means for man to be saved. God and God alone can save man.
The salvation that God has made possible is obtained through means that God and God alone established according to conditions that God and God alone determined.
Those conditions are clearly set out in scripture and they require certain things of man.
The salvation God has ordained is not according to a unilateral decree made prior to creation, in which He determined which individuals would be saved.
Before creation God determined that salvation would be through His Son and His Son alone, and that whoever trusts in Him will not perish but will have everlasting life.
THIS is what salvation starting and finishing with God's grace is about. It is about His super-abundant grace extended to all of mankind, offering redemption to all of mankind.
It is not a limited grace extended to an elite few.
What could be a more glorious demonstration of God’s grace than the TRUE gospel of Jesus Christ, in which salvation has been opened up to all - not through any complicated and unattainable process of works, but through simple trust in Jesus.
Not through some unchangeable decree which excludes the majority of mankind, leaving them entirely devoid of hope, but through simple faith in Jesus.
What a joy it is to realise that that God isn't against any of us - but He wants everyone to come to knowledge of the truth and everyone to find salvation?
And salvation is obtained through?
- Simple trust in Jesus.
----------
This issue is closely related to one of my earlier blog entries, “Parrot is not a God ordained ministry function” in which I addressed the Calvinist claim that non-Calvinists believe they contribute to their own salvation.
“In one [gospel], Salvation starts and finishes with God and His Grace, in the other Salvation starts and finishes with man himself”
As is often the case, this Calvinist claim is a total distortion of the facts. Nothing could be further from the truth and it is merely the blind repetition of a clichéd lie.
If the Calvinist claim is a lie, what IS the real belief of the majority of bible believing non-Calvinists?
God and God alone made it possible for man to be saved. God and God alone provided the means for man to be saved. God and God alone can save man.
The salvation that God has made possible is obtained through means that God and God alone established according to conditions that God and God alone determined.
Those conditions are clearly set out in scripture and they require certain things of man.
The salvation God has ordained is not according to a unilateral decree made prior to creation, in which He determined which individuals would be saved.
Before creation God determined that salvation would be through His Son and His Son alone, and that whoever trusts in Him will not perish but will have everlasting life.
THIS is what salvation starting and finishing with God's grace is about. It is about His super-abundant grace extended to all of mankind, offering redemption to all of mankind.
It is not a limited grace extended to an elite few.
What could be a more glorious demonstration of God’s grace than the TRUE gospel of Jesus Christ, in which salvation has been opened up to all - not through any complicated and unattainable process of works, but through simple trust in Jesus.
Not through some unchangeable decree which excludes the majority of mankind, leaving them entirely devoid of hope, but through simple faith in Jesus.
What a joy it is to realise that that God isn't against any of us - but He wants everyone to come to knowledge of the truth and everyone to find salvation?
And salvation is obtained through?
- Simple trust in Jesus.
----------
This issue is closely related to one of my earlier blog entries, “Parrot is not a God ordained ministry function” in which I addressed the Calvinist claim that non-Calvinists believe they contribute to their own salvation.
Tuesday, March 30, 2010
What does SCRIPTURE say without our added interpretation?
Recently I have seen a lot of people claiming that we all “interpret” scripture because we all approach it with a particular bias. But is that really the case and to what extent do we “interpret” scripture?
As far as possible I take scripture at face value, accepting what is written without trying to redefine its clearest meaning, as long as its context does not suggest that it should be taken as being symbolic. (Regarding biblical symbolism – rarely is the reader left in ignorance about the meaning of a symbol. The interpretation is usually revealed in the text.)
Let me give you an example of accepting God’s word AS WRITTEN compared to God’s word “INTERPRETED”
BIBLICAL TEXT:
How do we address this passage:
AS WRITTEN: After Jesus’ return Satan will be imprisoned and his deceptive power over the nations will be totally removed from the earth. Jesus will reign with his saints for 1000 years. After the 1000 years Satan will be released and will gather an army to oppose the rule of Jesus. Satan will be defeated and thrown into the lake of fire. There will be a thousand year gap between Jesus’ return (and the resurrection of the saints) and a second resurrection (that of the unsaved) which will precede the judgement.
AS INTERPRETED: This 1000 years is a symbolic period representing the church age, Satan was bound by Jesus at the cross and the saints are now ruling with Christ who is seated on His throne in heaven. Jesus’ return will be immediately followed by the judgement because there is no literal 1000 year earthly reign.
This is an extreme example – but it is one that is very WIDELY applied. Am I guilty of “interpreting scripture” because I choose to believe what is actually written instead of trying to explain why it doesn’t really mean what the passage actually says?
Another example:
When scripture tells me that
And
Why should this mean anything different to what it says?
And yet many add to, change or reinterpret the meaning of these verses because taken according to their literal meaning they totally discredit their favoured doctrines.
When scripture tells me that God desires all to be saved and to come to a knowledge of the truth and that God doesn’t want any to perish – then I don’t try to “interpret” or explain those statement away to make them fit other doctrines.
When I read statements that refer to election – those references to election do not negate the truths about who God desires to be saved. Instead of ignoring or redefining the statements about God’s desires, we should look further and see WHO is said to be elected and under what conditions. Again, when we find the answer to that it would be foolish to ignore that answer because it contradicts a doctrinal bias. Especially when that answer is totally consistent with other references through scripture
Is it “INTERPRETING” these verses when we accept that they mean that God wants ALL MEN to be saved, that Jesus gave Himself as a ransom for ALL MEN, that God does not want ANYONE to perish but wants EVERYONE to come to repentance?
Is there anything in the context of these statements that would indicate that a literal meaning should not be applied?
Sometimes the intended meaning of a few verses isn’t always immediately apparent from the content of the verses themselves. If that is the case we must allow scripture to interpret scripture . In other words, what does scripture elsewhere say that will open our understanding?
For example, what are we to make of John 1?
What would this mean to us if we were reading it for the first time? There is nothing in these first two verses to tell us what or who this “Word” is. We have to read further into the chapter to see:
From this we get a better idea of what the first two verses are about. The “Word”, from the context of the following verses can be seen to be Jesus. This truth becomes even more apparent when we continue into John’s writing.
This is also the case with Ephesians 1 – one of the favourite proof text passages regarding unconditional “election”. Not only is it the case that nowhere in this chapter does it indicate that “election” is unconditional, the chapter actually spells out the condition continually.
That election and every benefit available to “the elect” are THROUGH HIM (Christ) and IN HIM. And the passage also includes the revelation of how people come to be IN HIM.
So to be in Christ someone has to hear the gospel and believe. And then being in Christ we are included in the elect. This is also totally consistent with other parts of scripture that reveal that believing or having faith in Jesus is a primary condition of salvation. (A well known example being John 3:16 – “Whoever BELIEVES will not perish…”).
During many doctrinal discussions I find myself repeating “But what does SCRIPTURE say. What are the words on the page telling us – not how can I manipulate those words to make them fit my doctrine.
Too often we are prone to “interpreting” scripture instead of submitting ourselves to its clearest and plainest meaning because that clearest meaning can be more challenging than we like. Recognising the clearest meaning would require some kind of change, whether in doctrine or behaviour. It is much more comfortable to find a way of “interpreting” the text so that uncomfortable change is not necessary.
As far as possible I take scripture at face value, accepting what is written without trying to redefine its clearest meaning, as long as its context does not suggest that it should be taken as being symbolic. (Regarding biblical symbolism – rarely is the reader left in ignorance about the meaning of a symbol. The interpretation is usually revealed in the text.)
Let me give you an example of accepting God’s word AS WRITTEN compared to God’s word “INTERPRETED”
BIBLICAL TEXT:
Revelation 20: 1-10 And I saw an angel coming down out of heaven, having the key to the Abyss and holding in his hand a great chain. He seized the dragon, that ancient serpent, who is the devil, or Satan, and bound him for a thousand years. He threw him into the Abyss, and locked and sealed it over him, to keep him from deceiving the nations anymore until the thousand years were ended. After that, he must be set free for a short time.
I saw thrones on which were seated those who had been given authority to judge. And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded because of their testimony for Jesus and because of the word of God. They had not worshiped the beast or his image and had not received his mark on their foreheads or their hands. They came to life and reigned with Christ a thousand years. (The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were ended.) This is the first resurrection. Blessed and holy are those who have part in the first resurrection. The second death has no power over them, but they will be priests of God and of Christ and will reign with him for a thousand years.
When the thousand years are over, Satan will be released from his prison and will go out to deceive the nations in the four corners of the earth—Gog and Magog—to gather them for battle. In number they are like the sand on the seashore. They marched across the breadth of the earth and surrounded the camp of God's people, the city he loves. But fire came down from heaven and devoured them. And the devil, who deceived them, was thrown into the lake of burning sulfur, where the beast and the false prophet had been thrown. They will be tormented day and night for ever and ever.
How do we address this passage:
AS WRITTEN: After Jesus’ return Satan will be imprisoned and his deceptive power over the nations will be totally removed from the earth. Jesus will reign with his saints for 1000 years. After the 1000 years Satan will be released and will gather an army to oppose the rule of Jesus. Satan will be defeated and thrown into the lake of fire. There will be a thousand year gap between Jesus’ return (and the resurrection of the saints) and a second resurrection (that of the unsaved) which will precede the judgement.
AS INTERPRETED: This 1000 years is a symbolic period representing the church age, Satan was bound by Jesus at the cross and the saints are now ruling with Christ who is seated on His throne in heaven. Jesus’ return will be immediately followed by the judgement because there is no literal 1000 year earthly reign.
This is an extreme example – but it is one that is very WIDELY applied. Am I guilty of “interpreting scripture” because I choose to believe what is actually written instead of trying to explain why it doesn’t really mean what the passage actually says?
Another example:
When scripture tells me that
“God our Savior, … wants all men to be saved and to come to a knowledge of the truth. For there is one God and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ
Jesus, who gave himself as a ransom for all men”
And
“The Lord is not slow in keeping his promise, as some understand slowness. He is
patient with you, not wanting anyone to perish, but everyone to come to repentance.”
Why should this mean anything different to what it says?
And yet many add to, change or reinterpret the meaning of these verses because taken according to their literal meaning they totally discredit their favoured doctrines.
When scripture tells me that God desires all to be saved and to come to a knowledge of the truth and that God doesn’t want any to perish – then I don’t try to “interpret” or explain those statement away to make them fit other doctrines.
When I read statements that refer to election – those references to election do not negate the truths about who God desires to be saved. Instead of ignoring or redefining the statements about God’s desires, we should look further and see WHO is said to be elected and under what conditions. Again, when we find the answer to that it would be foolish to ignore that answer because it contradicts a doctrinal bias. Especially when that answer is totally consistent with other references through scripture
Is it “INTERPRETING” these verses when we accept that they mean that God wants ALL MEN to be saved, that Jesus gave Himself as a ransom for ALL MEN, that God does not want ANYONE to perish but wants EVERYONE to come to repentance?
Is there anything in the context of these statements that would indicate that a literal meaning should not be applied?
Sometimes the intended meaning of a few verses isn’t always immediately apparent from the content of the verses themselves. If that is the case we must allow scripture to interpret scripture . In other words, what does scripture elsewhere say that will open our understanding?
For example, what are we to make of John 1?
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
He was with God in the beginning.
What would this mean to us if we were reading it for the first time? There is nothing in these first two verses to tell us what or who this “Word” is. We have to read further into the chapter to see:
The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us. We have seen his glory, the glory of the One and Only, who came from the Father, full of grace and truth.
John testifies concerning him. He cries out, saying, "This was he of whom I said, 'He who comes after me has surpassed me because he was before me.' "
From this we get a better idea of what the first two verses are about. The “Word”, from the context of the following verses can be seen to be Jesus. This truth becomes even more apparent when we continue into John’s writing.
This is also the case with Ephesians 1 – one of the favourite proof text passages regarding unconditional “election”. Not only is it the case that nowhere in this chapter does it indicate that “election” is unconditional, the chapter actually spells out the condition continually.
That election and every benefit available to “the elect” are THROUGH HIM (Christ) and IN HIM. And the passage also includes the revelation of how people come to be IN HIM.
And you also were included in Christ when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation. Having believed, you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit, who is a deposit guaranteeing our inheritance until the redemption of those who are God's possession—to the praise of his glory.
So to be in Christ someone has to hear the gospel and believe. And then being in Christ we are included in the elect. This is also totally consistent with other parts of scripture that reveal that believing or having faith in Jesus is a primary condition of salvation. (A well known example being John 3:16 – “Whoever BELIEVES will not perish…”).
During many doctrinal discussions I find myself repeating “But what does SCRIPTURE say. What are the words on the page telling us – not how can I manipulate those words to make them fit my doctrine.
Too often we are prone to “interpreting” scripture instead of submitting ourselves to its clearest and plainest meaning because that clearest meaning can be more challenging than we like. Recognising the clearest meaning would require some kind of change, whether in doctrine or behaviour. It is much more comfortable to find a way of “interpreting” the text so that uncomfortable change is not necessary.
Tuesday, March 23, 2010
“PARROT” is not a God ordained Ministry Function.
One of the most common (and most ridiculous) accusations levelled against non-Calvinists is that they believe they contribute to their own salvation.Firstly I have NEVER heard any Christian (non-Calvinist or otherwise) suggesting that any action of their own has in any way made their salvation possible.
Secondly the ONLY people I have come across who make such accusations are those who are parroting what others have said – resorting to clichéd responses learned from other Calvinists rather than through referring to the truth of the situation.
It is an accusation I am fed up of refuting because it is so ridiculous it shouldn’t really need a response. I address the issue here merely as a forewarning that any further use of this accusation in any comment will not be allowed passed the moderation stage.
I can no more contribute to may own salvation through an act of my own will than I can become a millionaire by choosing to be one.
However, if a multi-billionaire made a million dollars available to whoever would receive it, then would receiving of the freely offered gift make the receiver a contributor to their newly affluent state? Of course not! They would only be receiving what another had freely given at HIS cost and not at the receiver’s cost.
Neither does receiving God’s free gift of salvation make anyone a contributor to their own salvation. Accepting the gift doesn’t mean someone has any better attributes than the one who rejects the gift. They are merely responding to the grace that God has extended to all of mankind through the giving of His Son.
Why should it be seen that accepting God’s gift requires someone to be better, smarter, and wiser than someone who rejects it? Why not see the rejecter as someone who prefers his/her own independence? As someone who chooses to remain in their rebellious state? Why suggest that having faith in God is more of a “work” than actively resisting Him?
Of course the claim that someone willing to receive salvation must, in some way, be “better” than those rejecting it (and would therefore be contributing to their own salvation) is yet another clichéd response passed on by Calvinist teacher to unwitting student.
Wake up to the truth. Wake up to the Gospel and abandon man’s corrupt theology. Stop basing beliefs on the parrot-like repetition of theological clichés and seek revelation from God through His word by His Spirit.
Thursday, March 18, 2010
KING OF KINGS AND LORD OF LORDS
I’ve probably been around too long to assume that Jesus will definitely return in my life time. In my late teens (oh so long ago!!!) there was a lot of excitement about Jesus imminent return and how the “rapture” could occur at any moment. All of the signs in the world seemed to match Jesus’ prophecies about the signs of the end times and I know friends were not only expecting Jesus to come in their lifetimes, at least one was worried that Jesus might return before his (my friend’s) wedding, so he would miss out on sex.
Now over 30 years have passed and the signs are still there (even more so) and I discovered that the pre-trib rapture has no scriptural foundation. I recognise that before Jesus returns there are many significant things that need to happen. Some of those could happen at any time – others will clearly take longer. The only thing I can say for certain is that they WILL happen at their appointed time and that Jesus WILL return with His saints and for those saints who survive the tribulation.
It is entirely feasible that all of this could happen during my lifetime, but looking back to those teenage years, I know I would have found it hard to believe that I’d be here 30+ years later and that Jesus hadn’t yet returned.
I suppose the thought of surviving until Jesus returns gives me mixed feelings. Firstly, how wonderful it would be to be caught up and whisked off to Jerusalem to meet with Him in the air!!!
But then I realise the hardships and the horrors that would have to be experienced in the preceding years before that glorious day arrived. Who could survive those years without the encouragement and forewarnings given in scripture – particularly in Revelation?
When those days have undeniably arrived, those who witness them will know there are only a few short years to go before our Lord’s triumphant return. How much more will they be encouraged to endure and overcome through those terrible times, knowing how close it is to His return?
I saw heaven standing open and there before me was a white horse, whose rider is called Faithful and True. With justice he judges and makes war. His eyes are like blazing fire, and on his head are many crowns. He has a name written on him that no one knows but he himself. He is dressed in a robe dipped in blood, and his name is the Word of God. The armies of heaven were following him, riding on white horses and dressed in fine linen, white and clean. Out of his mouth comes a sharp sword with which to strike down the nations. "He will rule them with an iron scepter." He treads the winepress of the fury of the wrath of God Almighty. On his robe and on his thigh he has this name written:
KING OF KINGS AND LORD OF LORDS.
Now over 30 years have passed and the signs are still there (even more so) and I discovered that the pre-trib rapture has no scriptural foundation. I recognise that before Jesus returns there are many significant things that need to happen. Some of those could happen at any time – others will clearly take longer. The only thing I can say for certain is that they WILL happen at their appointed time and that Jesus WILL return with His saints and for those saints who survive the tribulation.
It is entirely feasible that all of this could happen during my lifetime, but looking back to those teenage years, I know I would have found it hard to believe that I’d be here 30+ years later and that Jesus hadn’t yet returned.
I suppose the thought of surviving until Jesus returns gives me mixed feelings. Firstly, how wonderful it would be to be caught up and whisked off to Jerusalem to meet with Him in the air!!!
But then I realise the hardships and the horrors that would have to be experienced in the preceding years before that glorious day arrived. Who could survive those years without the encouragement and forewarnings given in scripture – particularly in Revelation?
When those days have undeniably arrived, those who witness them will know there are only a few short years to go before our Lord’s triumphant return. How much more will they be encouraged to endure and overcome through those terrible times, knowing how close it is to His return?
I saw heaven standing open and there before me was a white horse, whose rider is called Faithful and True. With justice he judges and makes war. His eyes are like blazing fire, and on his head are many crowns. He has a name written on him that no one knows but he himself. He is dressed in a robe dipped in blood, and his name is the Word of God. The armies of heaven were following him, riding on white horses and dressed in fine linen, white and clean. Out of his mouth comes a sharp sword with which to strike down the nations. "He will rule them with an iron scepter." He treads the winepress of the fury of the wrath of God Almighty. On his robe and on his thigh he has this name written:
KING OF KINGS AND LORD OF LORDS.
Wednesday, March 03, 2010
Election & Predestination in Ephesians 1
What does Ephesians 1 say about election and predestination? Looking at the clear and simple text with emphasis of particular points but without interpretation.
Eph 1: 3-14 Praise be to the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us in the heavenly realms with every spiritual blessing in Christ. For he chose us in him before the creation of the world to be holy and blameless in his sight. In love he predestined us to be adopted as his sons through Jesus Christ, in accordance with his pleasure and will— to the praise of his glorious grace, which he has freely given us in the One he loves.
In him we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, in accordance with the riches of God's grace that he lavished on us with all wisdom and understanding. And he made known to us the mystery of his will according to his good pleasure, which he purposed in Christ, to be put into effect when the times will have reached their fulfillment—to bring all things in heaven and on earth together under one head, even Christ.
In him we were also chosen, having been predestined according to the plan of him who works out everything in conformity with the purpose of his will, in order that we, who were the first to hope in Christ, might be for the praise of his glory. And you also were included in Christ when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation. Having believed, you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit, who is a deposit guaranteeing our inheritance until the redemption of those who are God's possession—to the praise of his glory.
And just in case you missed the point, election and predestination are IN CHRIST and THROUGH CHRIST – and we are included IN CHRIST when we hear “the word of truth, the gospel of [our] salvation. And it is Having believed, [we are] marked IN HIM with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit…”
Eph 1: 3-14 Praise be to the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us in the heavenly realms with every spiritual blessing in Christ. For he chose us in him before the creation of the world to be holy and blameless in his sight. In love he predestined us to be adopted as his sons through Jesus Christ, in accordance with his pleasure and will— to the praise of his glorious grace, which he has freely given us in the One he loves.
In him we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, in accordance with the riches of God's grace that he lavished on us with all wisdom and understanding. And he made known to us the mystery of his will according to his good pleasure, which he purposed in Christ, to be put into effect when the times will have reached their fulfillment—to bring all things in heaven and on earth together under one head, even Christ.
In him we were also chosen, having been predestined according to the plan of him who works out everything in conformity with the purpose of his will, in order that we, who were the first to hope in Christ, might be for the praise of his glory. And you also were included in Christ when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation. Having believed, you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit, who is a deposit guaranteeing our inheritance until the redemption of those who are God's possession—to the praise of his glory.
And just in case you missed the point, election and predestination are IN CHRIST and THROUGH CHRIST – and we are included IN CHRIST when we hear “the word of truth, the gospel of [our] salvation. And it is Having believed, [we are] marked IN HIM with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit…”
Tuesday, February 23, 2010
Questions to ponder
When does scripture mean exactly what it says and when does it REALLY mean what we prefer it to say?
To what extent will our answer to the question above affect our understanding and knowledge of God and His ways?
To what extent will our answer to the question above affect our understanding and knowledge of God and His ways?
Friday, February 19, 2010
If you seek him, he will be found by you.
Many people seek God but do so on their own terms and make their search conditional upon what they want God to be like.
Many want God to be an all-loving, all singing and dancing being who is so desperate for a following that he will do anything to please those who accept him.
Others seek a God who is like an impersonal fashion accessory that makes no personal demands. Such a God can be brought out in public occasionally and be thanked for helping in our achievements - making a show of our "humility" in thanking him, no matter how puerile our achievement may have been (think of Grammy award acceptance speeches here).
Others seek a God who will promote their own self esteem and make them feel good about themselves, one who will commend them for being such good people compared to the rest of the world.
I could go on...
How many genuinely attempt to seek God according to HIS terms?
I saw the following question and statement on another blog: "Do Jews or Muslims or Baha'is search for God? Obviously the answer is yes."
The implication here is that they have sought God and found one who is different to the Christian God, so who was to say which “god” was the right one, if any?
But how many of those people are actually searching for something other than God, something more selfish? How many are really interested in a genuine encounter with the creator of the universe? Are they genuinely looking for the one who has the ultimate authority over what He created whether we like it or not?
Returning to the blogger’s question :
“Do Jews or Muslims or Baha'is search for God?
I said that many seek God but on their own terms. This can be seen in the case of the Muslim and Baha'i. Both of these accept the reality of Jesus and recognise Him as a prophet and/or teacher – as do MOST other religions. But they only pay lip-service to those parts of His teaching that appeal to what they want to believe. They ignore His claim that HE exclusively is the way to God. They ignore His teaching on hell. They ignore the reason for and the significance of His crucifixion and resurrection. In other words they seek His teaching ONLY when it conforms to their own desires.
The Jews are a little different. They recognise the one true God, the very same God worshipped by the Christian. The significant difference is their failure to recognise that Jesus is the Messiah they have been waiting for. They do not recognise that Jesus’ life death and resurrection were the fulfilment of the word of their prophets because Jesus did not bring about the deliverance of Israel from the oppression of Rome. They fail to see that the prophesied glorious future for Israel that their Messiah will bring will come about when Jesus returns as foretold in the New Testament.
While the Jews currently reject Jesus, the bible predicts a time when they WILL recognise Him as the King they have been waiting for.
Looking at the matter openly, the very fact that the Jews are still around today, and that Israel is once again on the map, is a very convincing reason to recognise the reality of the God of Israel who is also the God of Jesus Christ.
What other ethnic group has remained recognisably intact after 2000 years of exile from their land - and has returned to that same land as a powerful and influential nation.
Of course it must be coincidence (not!) that the long exile and the return from nations around the world was predicted by their prophets hundreds of years before that exile took place.
Many want God to be an all-loving, all singing and dancing being who is so desperate for a following that he will do anything to please those who accept him.
Others seek a God who is like an impersonal fashion accessory that makes no personal demands. Such a God can be brought out in public occasionally and be thanked for helping in our achievements - making a show of our "humility" in thanking him, no matter how puerile our achievement may have been (think of Grammy award acceptance speeches here).
Others seek a God who will promote their own self esteem and make them feel good about themselves, one who will commend them for being such good people compared to the rest of the world.
I could go on...
How many genuinely attempt to seek God according to HIS terms?
I saw the following question and statement on another blog: "Do Jews or Muslims or Baha'is search for God? Obviously the answer is yes."
The implication here is that they have sought God and found one who is different to the Christian God, so who was to say which “god” was the right one, if any?
But how many of those people are actually searching for something other than God, something more selfish? How many are really interested in a genuine encounter with the creator of the universe? Are they genuinely looking for the one who has the ultimate authority over what He created whether we like it or not?
"the LORD searches every heart and understands every motive behind the thoughts. If you seek him, he will be found by you; but if you forsake him, he will reject you forever."
Returning to the blogger’s question :
“Do Jews or Muslims or Baha'is search for God?
I said that many seek God but on their own terms. This can be seen in the case of the Muslim and Baha'i. Both of these accept the reality of Jesus and recognise Him as a prophet and/or teacher – as do MOST other religions. But they only pay lip-service to those parts of His teaching that appeal to what they want to believe. They ignore His claim that HE exclusively is the way to God. They ignore His teaching on hell. They ignore the reason for and the significance of His crucifixion and resurrection. In other words they seek His teaching ONLY when it conforms to their own desires.
The Jews are a little different. They recognise the one true God, the very same God worshipped by the Christian. The significant difference is their failure to recognise that Jesus is the Messiah they have been waiting for. They do not recognise that Jesus’ life death and resurrection were the fulfilment of the word of their prophets because Jesus did not bring about the deliverance of Israel from the oppression of Rome. They fail to see that the prophesied glorious future for Israel that their Messiah will bring will come about when Jesus returns as foretold in the New Testament.
While the Jews currently reject Jesus, the bible predicts a time when they WILL recognise Him as the King they have been waiting for.
Looking at the matter openly, the very fact that the Jews are still around today, and that Israel is once again on the map, is a very convincing reason to recognise the reality of the God of Israel who is also the God of Jesus Christ.
What other ethnic group has remained recognisably intact after 2000 years of exile from their land - and has returned to that same land as a powerful and influential nation.
Of course it must be coincidence (not!) that the long exile and the return from nations around the world was predicted by their prophets hundreds of years before that exile took place.
Wednesday, February 17, 2010
How to approach the Bible (a personal account)
Part one: How NOT to approach the bible.
In my early days as a Christian, the Bible tended to be experienced through the handful of verses quoted by a preacher in church during his sermon. When I was feeling diligent and more “spiritual” than other occasions I would even go home and read over those verses again to make sure the preacher had really been quoting scripture. If the verses were there I was satisfied that the preaching had been “scriptural”.
Some times I would recognise that I needed to study scripture more for myself. So I bought myself a study bible and found myself studying the notes in the margin more than I actually read the text of scripture.
Eventually I started to notice a bit of a discrepancy between the Christian life being promoted by the preachers in church and the actual Christian life being lived and demonstrated within the church and of course by myself. Something was definitely missing between professed faith and experienced/demonstrated faith.
Friends of mine came up with the answer, shared it with me and eventually my eyes opened to the truth of what they had been sharing. Christians did not REALLY believe the word of God. We were swayed by everything around us, by experience by emotion by circumstances even when those things contradicted what God had revealed in His word.
I suppose part of this problem stemmed from the fact that most of us had never really understood what God’s word was saying because we had neglected it. All we knew was what we were being taught in church and it was clear that the church had no more insight than we had.
My friends started to lend me tapes of sermons that concentrated on the importance of knowing God’s word and believing it. The teaching was revolutionary and exciting. It all made complete sense and I could see that a diligent application would help me experience the same dynamic Christian experience recorded in the book of Acts.
I soaked up the teaching and studied the many scriptures I was learning through the teaching, memorising what I could and “confessing” them regularly.
I became very adept at having a “scripture” for every occasion and situation. If I started feeling unwell I knew that “By His stripes I was healed” and that illness was subject to the truth of God’s word. What would I believe – the evidence of my flesh or the word of God Himself?
But again it should be noted that my relationship with scripture was mainly second-hand, coming to me selected and interpreted by the people whose teaching I found appealing. I knew a lot of scripture, but my knowledge didn’t include its intended SCRIPTURAL context. My knowledge and understanding came from the context it was given by the teacher.
I’ve written elsewhere how this house built on sand came crashing down and how it took over 15 years to recover so I won’t repeat that here. I’ll just move on next to what I have learned since then and how my understanding and approach to scripture has changed.
Part 2 Starting With Foundations
Firstly I refrained from any attempt to STUDY scripture. In the past, when I had taken the time to turn to the scriptures for myself it was usually to study a particular topic or a selected portion of scripture. But in doing that I had no idea of how that topic or that portion related to the Bible as a whole. I came to realise that I didn’t understand the very basics of how the different parts of scripture fitted together, how one part related to another.
How did the books of law, the books of history, the prophets, the psalms and the other miscellaneous writings of the Old Testament all come together?
How could I expect to understand what I was studying if I had no overall foundation to build upon? Before I could get anything of value from studying PARTS of scripture I needed to get the overview. The only way of getting that was to read scripture without getting distracted by things I didn’t understand. I needed to see THAT things fitted together and HOW instead of trying to make a piece from here join up with a piece from over there whether they ought to be joined or not.
I also couldn’t expect to understand everything on my first reading. I had to be willing to put some things aside and move on.
Scripture was written in whole books and not in convenient sound bites. Our ideas of “study” tend to make us concentrate on little bits of information rather than the big picture. Often “study” is little more than a demonstration of our impatience. We want answers NOW and so dig into the targeted area to find out as much as possible as soon as possible.
The problem with this is that we may not be ready to understand that issue. Sometimes we may be lacking a more foundational area of understanding and that lack will hinder out ability to correctly comprehend the subject of our study
I use the example of mathematics. We will not understand advanced concepts of algebra if we have never learned the basic truths of arithmetic. And yet, as Christians we try to rush ahead to understand the complex before we’ve grasped the basics of faith. This is why so often we turn to the teaching of others and so easily we get caught up in man’s ideas at the expense of the truth we need to learn.
Reading rather than study helps us to build up those foundational basics. We pick things up as we go along – those things that we are ready to understand instead of trying to force ourselves to pick up things that we are not ready for. This is why subsequent readings often bring new light. Each reading will add to our foundations and will make us ready to add more. I experienced this recently while reading Zechariah. Some things made much more sense this time than previously – in fact it was like reading a new book. This was because my reading elsewhere in the prophets had added a layer of understanding that helped me to see things in Zechariah that I’d missed before.
Part 3. Practical issues.
One of the most valuable bible reading aids that I’ve come across is a volume called “The Books of the Bible”. No it isn’t some kind of commentary; it’s an edition of the Bible without Chapter and verse divisions. It is also presented more or less in chronological order. For example, all of Paul’s letters appear in the order they were written instead of according to length (as in the more familiar order of other Bibles). The Old Testament is also re-ordered so that the prophets also come in chronological sequence. Other books are grouped to match the order of the Hebrew Scriptures.
It is hard to describe what a difference it makes to avoid the distractions of chapter and verse numbers. Those manmade divisions have made it very easy to pull sections from their context and apply them incorrectly. They also cause unnatural breaks in the flow of the text. Some of the chapter divisions occur on the most inappropriate places.
Another useful aid I have is a dramatised bible on CD. After reading a book through for myself I find it helpful to read along while listening to the recording. However, not all audio bibles are of the same quality. I’ve heard some from readers who seem to have no understanding of what they are reading. Their emphasis and intonation is all wrong and it becomes a hindrance rather than a help. The particular version I have is excellent.
Many people try to devote a little time each day to reading a portion of scripture. My personal preference is to devote a larger block of time to reading, even if it’s not possible to do so every day. That larger block of time makes it easier to keep things in context and with some of shorter to medium length books it allows the reading of a whole book in one sitting. This of course is rarely practical for the longer books. While on some days there may not always be the opportunity for those longer reading periods, I regularly spend time thinking over and discussing what I’ve read and how it fits together with the rest of scripture.
And remember, the Psalms are ideal to read when time is more limited.
In my early days as a Christian, the Bible tended to be experienced through the handful of verses quoted by a preacher in church during his sermon. When I was feeling diligent and more “spiritual” than other occasions I would even go home and read over those verses again to make sure the preacher had really been quoting scripture. If the verses were there I was satisfied that the preaching had been “scriptural”.
Some times I would recognise that I needed to study scripture more for myself. So I bought myself a study bible and found myself studying the notes in the margin more than I actually read the text of scripture.
Eventually I started to notice a bit of a discrepancy between the Christian life being promoted by the preachers in church and the actual Christian life being lived and demonstrated within the church and of course by myself. Something was definitely missing between professed faith and experienced/demonstrated faith.
Friends of mine came up with the answer, shared it with me and eventually my eyes opened to the truth of what they had been sharing. Christians did not REALLY believe the word of God. We were swayed by everything around us, by experience by emotion by circumstances even when those things contradicted what God had revealed in His word.
I suppose part of this problem stemmed from the fact that most of us had never really understood what God’s word was saying because we had neglected it. All we knew was what we were being taught in church and it was clear that the church had no more insight than we had.
My friends started to lend me tapes of sermons that concentrated on the importance of knowing God’s word and believing it. The teaching was revolutionary and exciting. It all made complete sense and I could see that a diligent application would help me experience the same dynamic Christian experience recorded in the book of Acts.
I soaked up the teaching and studied the many scriptures I was learning through the teaching, memorising what I could and “confessing” them regularly.
I became very adept at having a “scripture” for every occasion and situation. If I started feeling unwell I knew that “By His stripes I was healed” and that illness was subject to the truth of God’s word. What would I believe – the evidence of my flesh or the word of God Himself?
But again it should be noted that my relationship with scripture was mainly second-hand, coming to me selected and interpreted by the people whose teaching I found appealing. I knew a lot of scripture, but my knowledge didn’t include its intended SCRIPTURAL context. My knowledge and understanding came from the context it was given by the teacher.
I’ve written elsewhere how this house built on sand came crashing down and how it took over 15 years to recover so I won’t repeat that here. I’ll just move on next to what I have learned since then and how my understanding and approach to scripture has changed.
Part 2 Starting With Foundations
Firstly I refrained from any attempt to STUDY scripture. In the past, when I had taken the time to turn to the scriptures for myself it was usually to study a particular topic or a selected portion of scripture. But in doing that I had no idea of how that topic or that portion related to the Bible as a whole. I came to realise that I didn’t understand the very basics of how the different parts of scripture fitted together, how one part related to another.
How did the books of law, the books of history, the prophets, the psalms and the other miscellaneous writings of the Old Testament all come together?
How could I expect to understand what I was studying if I had no overall foundation to build upon? Before I could get anything of value from studying PARTS of scripture I needed to get the overview. The only way of getting that was to read scripture without getting distracted by things I didn’t understand. I needed to see THAT things fitted together and HOW instead of trying to make a piece from here join up with a piece from over there whether they ought to be joined or not.
I also couldn’t expect to understand everything on my first reading. I had to be willing to put some things aside and move on.
Scripture was written in whole books and not in convenient sound bites. Our ideas of “study” tend to make us concentrate on little bits of information rather than the big picture. Often “study” is little more than a demonstration of our impatience. We want answers NOW and so dig into the targeted area to find out as much as possible as soon as possible.
The problem with this is that we may not be ready to understand that issue. Sometimes we may be lacking a more foundational area of understanding and that lack will hinder out ability to correctly comprehend the subject of our study
I use the example of mathematics. We will not understand advanced concepts of algebra if we have never learned the basic truths of arithmetic. And yet, as Christians we try to rush ahead to understand the complex before we’ve grasped the basics of faith. This is why so often we turn to the teaching of others and so easily we get caught up in man’s ideas at the expense of the truth we need to learn.
Reading rather than study helps us to build up those foundational basics. We pick things up as we go along – those things that we are ready to understand instead of trying to force ourselves to pick up things that we are not ready for. This is why subsequent readings often bring new light. Each reading will add to our foundations and will make us ready to add more. I experienced this recently while reading Zechariah. Some things made much more sense this time than previously – in fact it was like reading a new book. This was because my reading elsewhere in the prophets had added a layer of understanding that helped me to see things in Zechariah that I’d missed before.
Part 3. Practical issues.
One of the most valuable bible reading aids that I’ve come across is a volume called “The Books of the Bible”. No it isn’t some kind of commentary; it’s an edition of the Bible without Chapter and verse divisions. It is also presented more or less in chronological order. For example, all of Paul’s letters appear in the order they were written instead of according to length (as in the more familiar order of other Bibles). The Old Testament is also re-ordered so that the prophets also come in chronological sequence. Other books are grouped to match the order of the Hebrew Scriptures.
It is hard to describe what a difference it makes to avoid the distractions of chapter and verse numbers. Those manmade divisions have made it very easy to pull sections from their context and apply them incorrectly. They also cause unnatural breaks in the flow of the text. Some of the chapter divisions occur on the most inappropriate places.
Another useful aid I have is a dramatised bible on CD. After reading a book through for myself I find it helpful to read along while listening to the recording. However, not all audio bibles are of the same quality. I’ve heard some from readers who seem to have no understanding of what they are reading. Their emphasis and intonation is all wrong and it becomes a hindrance rather than a help. The particular version I have is excellent.
Many people try to devote a little time each day to reading a portion of scripture. My personal preference is to devote a larger block of time to reading, even if it’s not possible to do so every day. That larger block of time makes it easier to keep things in context and with some of shorter to medium length books it allows the reading of a whole book in one sitting. This of course is rarely practical for the longer books. While on some days there may not always be the opportunity for those longer reading periods, I regularly spend time thinking over and discussing what I’ve read and how it fits together with the rest of scripture.
And remember, the Psalms are ideal to read when time is more limited.
Thursday, February 04, 2010
God's Future for Israel
Some disagreements in doctrine are understandable. None of us have perfect knowledge or understanding of scripture and there are some parts of scripture that are ambiguous enough for us to come up with vastly different interpretations until further understanding is gained.
However, some truths could not be made clearer and I don’t know how wide sections of the Christian community can dismiss them.
One of these relates to Israel’s place in God’s purposes and in particular their future.
I don’t have to the time to go through all of the evidence, but scripture could not be more clear about the issue.
One day in the future Israel as a nation will recognise that Jesus is their Messiah and they will be saved under the new covenant in the same way that every other believer becomes saved under the new covenant.
When the future of Israel is revealed in prophecy, scripture is not referring to a “spiritual” Israel – meaning the church, as replacement theology insists.
Those prophecies are referring to NATIONAL Israel, physical descendants of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, to whom the physical land of Israel was promised.
If there was no other prophecy in scripture related to this matter, Ezekiel 36 should establish this truth once and for all.
This portion makes it absolutely clear of whom the Lord is referring.
“24 " 'For I will take you out of the nations; I will gather you from all the countries and bring you back into your own land. 25 I will sprinkle clean water on you, and you will be clean; I will cleanse you from all your impurities and from all your idols. 26 I will give you a new heart and put a new spirit in you; I will remove from you your heart of stone and give you a heart of flesh. 27 And I will put my Spirit in you and move you to follow my decrees and be careful to keep my laws. 28 You will live in the land I gave your forefathers; you will be my people, and I will be your God. 29 I will save you from all your uncleanness.
He is referring to a people who have been scattered among the nations and whose forefathers had been given a land. They will be returned to that land and live in it. And they will be cleansed and given a new heart and a new spirit. This clearly refers to the new birth – a fact recognised even by the replacement theologians who apply those references to themselves but ignore the fact that the context here in Ezekiel is specifically and CLEARLY referring to Israel.
Paul also makes Israel’s ultimate future clear when he writes in Romans 11:
26 And so all Israel will be saved, as it is written:
"The deliverer will come from Zion;
he will turn godlessness away from Jacob.
27 And this is my covenant with them
when I take away their sins."
“But”, say the replacement theologians, “Paul has already said that ‘not all who are descended from Israel are Israel.’” As if this statement is enough to deny that ANY descended from Israel are Israel and that the statement overturns all prophecy that promises Israel a future with God.
What does that statement mean? I think it is explained towards the end of Amos (chapter 9):
9 For I will give the command,
and I will shake the house of Israel
among all the nations
as grain is shaken in a sieve,
and not a pebble will reach the ground.
10 All the sinners among my people
will die by the sword,
all those who say,
'Disaster will not overtake or meet us.'
11 "In that day I will restore
David's fallen tent.
I will repair its broken places,
restore its ruins,
and build it as it used to be,
12 so that they may possess the remnant of Edom
and all the nations that bear my name, "
declares the LORD, who will do these things.
13 "The days are coming," declares the LORD,
"when the reaper will be overtaken by the plowman
and the planter by the one treading grapes.
New wine will drip from the mountains
and flow from all the hills.
14 I will bring back my exiled people Israel;
they will rebuild the ruined cities and live in them.
They will plant vineyards and drink their wine;
they will make gardens and eat their fruit.
15 I will plant Israel in their own land,
never again to be uprooted
from the land I have given them,"
says the LORD your God.
This section of scripture echo Ezekiel’s prophecy about Israel being returned to the land and adds NEVER AGAIN TO BE UPROOTED* (obviously referring to a time AFTER the destruction of Jerusalem and the dispersal and exile of Jews from the land for almost 2000 years).
It also gives us a hint of who God considers to be the true Israel. Firstly taking into account OT prophecy there should be no doubt that Israel is ALWAYS national Israel because of the references to the land of their forefathers. Secondly we take into account Paul’s statement that not all descended from Israel are Israel. Thirdly we see in Amos that a shaking of Israel will take place in which sinners among God’s people of Israel will not survive. Therefore it will be the remnant of national Israel who will survive the shaking who will be that “All Israel” who will be saved in the end times.
It is probably not surprising that those who reject Israel’s future place in God’s plans, also deny the literal millennial reign of Jesus from Jerusalem. And to deny that its necessary to ignore or distort what is clearly revealed throughout the majority of scripture, in particular the Old Testament prophets and the writings of the apostles.
----
* I think it would be a mistake to assume that the establishment of Israel as a nation in 1948 HAS to be the return being prophesied in scripture. It could well be - but personally I wouldn't take it for granted. I see the possibility of a further exile (possibly short term) in which Israel is again subjected to extreme persecution (possibly the sifting mentioned by Amos) after which the final and permanent return occurs.
However, some truths could not be made clearer and I don’t know how wide sections of the Christian community can dismiss them.
One of these relates to Israel’s place in God’s purposes and in particular their future.
I don’t have to the time to go through all of the evidence, but scripture could not be more clear about the issue.
One day in the future Israel as a nation will recognise that Jesus is their Messiah and they will be saved under the new covenant in the same way that every other believer becomes saved under the new covenant.
When the future of Israel is revealed in prophecy, scripture is not referring to a “spiritual” Israel – meaning the church, as replacement theology insists.
Those prophecies are referring to NATIONAL Israel, physical descendants of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, to whom the physical land of Israel was promised.
If there was no other prophecy in scripture related to this matter, Ezekiel 36 should establish this truth once and for all.
This portion makes it absolutely clear of whom the Lord is referring.
“24 " 'For I will take you out of the nations; I will gather you from all the countries and bring you back into your own land. 25 I will sprinkle clean water on you, and you will be clean; I will cleanse you from all your impurities and from all your idols. 26 I will give you a new heart and put a new spirit in you; I will remove from you your heart of stone and give you a heart of flesh. 27 And I will put my Spirit in you and move you to follow my decrees and be careful to keep my laws. 28 You will live in the land I gave your forefathers; you will be my people, and I will be your God. 29 I will save you from all your uncleanness.
He is referring to a people who have been scattered among the nations and whose forefathers had been given a land. They will be returned to that land and live in it. And they will be cleansed and given a new heart and a new spirit. This clearly refers to the new birth – a fact recognised even by the replacement theologians who apply those references to themselves but ignore the fact that the context here in Ezekiel is specifically and CLEARLY referring to Israel.
Paul also makes Israel’s ultimate future clear when he writes in Romans 11:
26 And so all Israel will be saved, as it is written:
"The deliverer will come from Zion;
he will turn godlessness away from Jacob.
27 And this is my covenant with them
when I take away their sins."
“But”, say the replacement theologians, “Paul has already said that ‘not all who are descended from Israel are Israel.’” As if this statement is enough to deny that ANY descended from Israel are Israel and that the statement overturns all prophecy that promises Israel a future with God.
What does that statement mean? I think it is explained towards the end of Amos (chapter 9):
9 For I will give the command,
and I will shake the house of Israel
among all the nations
as grain is shaken in a sieve,
and not a pebble will reach the ground.
10 All the sinners among my people
will die by the sword,
all those who say,
'Disaster will not overtake or meet us.'
11 "In that day I will restore
David's fallen tent.
I will repair its broken places,
restore its ruins,
and build it as it used to be,
12 so that they may possess the remnant of Edom
and all the nations that bear my name, "
declares the LORD, who will do these things.
13 "The days are coming," declares the LORD,
"when the reaper will be overtaken by the plowman
and the planter by the one treading grapes.
New wine will drip from the mountains
and flow from all the hills.
14 I will bring back my exiled people Israel;
they will rebuild the ruined cities and live in them.
They will plant vineyards and drink their wine;
they will make gardens and eat their fruit.
15 I will plant Israel in their own land,
never again to be uprooted
from the land I have given them,"
says the LORD your God.
This section of scripture echo Ezekiel’s prophecy about Israel being returned to the land and adds NEVER AGAIN TO BE UPROOTED* (obviously referring to a time AFTER the destruction of Jerusalem and the dispersal and exile of Jews from the land for almost 2000 years).
It also gives us a hint of who God considers to be the true Israel. Firstly taking into account OT prophecy there should be no doubt that Israel is ALWAYS national Israel because of the references to the land of their forefathers. Secondly we take into account Paul’s statement that not all descended from Israel are Israel. Thirdly we see in Amos that a shaking of Israel will take place in which sinners among God’s people of Israel will not survive. Therefore it will be the remnant of national Israel who will survive the shaking who will be that “All Israel” who will be saved in the end times.
It is probably not surprising that those who reject Israel’s future place in God’s plans, also deny the literal millennial reign of Jesus from Jerusalem. And to deny that its necessary to ignore or distort what is clearly revealed throughout the majority of scripture, in particular the Old Testament prophets and the writings of the apostles.
----
* I think it would be a mistake to assume that the establishment of Israel as a nation in 1948 HAS to be the return being prophesied in scripture. It could well be - but personally I wouldn't take it for granted. I see the possibility of a further exile (possibly short term) in which Israel is again subjected to extreme persecution (possibly the sifting mentioned by Amos) after which the final and permanent return occurs.
Wednesday, February 03, 2010
Who has God elected or chosen to save?
This is a link to the second part of a series examining the foundational doctrines of Calvinism from an Arminian point of view.
Its author, William Birch, is a former Calvinist.
AN EXAMINATION OF TULIP THEOLOGY: "U" FOR UNCONDITIONAL ELECTION
An excerpt from the article.
Who has God elected or chosen to save? It is explicitly and overwhelmingly clear from Scripture that God has chosen to save anyone who will believe in His Son Jesus Christ (Mk. 1:15; John 1:7, 12; 4:42; 6:29; 11:27; 12:42; 14:1; 16:30-31; 17:20; Acts 8:37; 15:11; 16:31; Rom. 3:22; 4:11; 10:9; 1 Cor. 1:21; Gal. 3:22; Eph. 1:19; 1 Tim. 4:10) -- the most explicit passage being, "God was well-pleased through the foolishness of the message preached to save those who believe" (1 Cor. 1:21 NASB).
This being the truth of Scripture then election must be viewed as conditional: it is conditioned upon faith in Christ. Thus Arminians believe in the doctrine of Conditional Election; but only in the sense that sinners become elect upon faith in and union with Christ Jesus, and not beforehand. We believe it is erroneous to say that God has unconditionally elected to save or unconditionally saves anyone, since faith is the condition to being justified, regenerated and thus saved.
-----
The first part of the series can be found here:
Examination of tulip
Its author, William Birch, is a former Calvinist.
AN EXAMINATION OF TULIP THEOLOGY: "U" FOR UNCONDITIONAL ELECTION
An excerpt from the article.
Who has God elected or chosen to save? It is explicitly and overwhelmingly clear from Scripture that God has chosen to save anyone who will believe in His Son Jesus Christ (Mk. 1:15; John 1:7, 12; 4:42; 6:29; 11:27; 12:42; 14:1; 16:30-31; 17:20; Acts 8:37; 15:11; 16:31; Rom. 3:22; 4:11; 10:9; 1 Cor. 1:21; Gal. 3:22; Eph. 1:19; 1 Tim. 4:10) -- the most explicit passage being, "God was well-pleased through the foolishness of the message preached to save those who believe" (1 Cor. 1:21 NASB).
This being the truth of Scripture then election must be viewed as conditional: it is conditioned upon faith in Christ. Thus Arminians believe in the doctrine of Conditional Election; but only in the sense that sinners become elect upon faith in and union with Christ Jesus, and not beforehand. We believe it is erroneous to say that God has unconditionally elected to save or unconditionally saves anyone, since faith is the condition to being justified, regenerated and thus saved.
-----
The first part of the series can be found here:
Examination of tulip
Friday, January 29, 2010
Relativism. On denying God and gravity.
There is an attitude I’ve experienced that I’m having trouble understanding. I think it exposes the depths of human pride and arrogance and is a clear example of the relativism pervading human thought (especially WESTERN thought).
How do I describe it?
Well - it’s the kind of thinking that assumes our own beliefs are what is important and those beliefs make our own reality.
The particular example I have in mind was a discussion with a person who assumed that his non-belief in God excused him from any possible consequences for that non-belief.
There was no recognition of a firm concrete truth that remains firm and concrete regardless of human belief.
Every human on earth could deny God’s existence and that would make absolutely no difference to whether God exists or not.
Likewise, every human could believe strongly in God and that belief would make absolutely no difference to whether God exists or not.
Either he REALLY exists or He doesn't - and it would be foolish to think our own beliefs make a difference to that truth.
I could deny the reality of gravity, but my non-belief would not protect me from the consequences of jumping from a plane without a parachute. Therefore if I intended to jump from a plane I would be wise to check out the validity of my belief before it became too late.
How do I describe it?
Well - it’s the kind of thinking that assumes our own beliefs are what is important and those beliefs make our own reality.
The particular example I have in mind was a discussion with a person who assumed that his non-belief in God excused him from any possible consequences for that non-belief.
There was no recognition of a firm concrete truth that remains firm and concrete regardless of human belief.
Every human on earth could deny God’s existence and that would make absolutely no difference to whether God exists or not.
Likewise, every human could believe strongly in God and that belief would make absolutely no difference to whether God exists or not.
Either he REALLY exists or He doesn't - and it would be foolish to think our own beliefs make a difference to that truth.
I could deny the reality of gravity, but my non-belief would not protect me from the consequences of jumping from a plane without a parachute. Therefore if I intended to jump from a plane I would be wise to check out the validity of my belief before it became too late.
Wednesday, January 27, 2010
Sharks & Jellyfish. Two types of deception
I have participated in a lot of forum discussion about Todd Bentley et al, since the start of the so called Lakeland revival. Despite the very clear warning given through his hurried divorce and remarriage (that started during that so-called revival) thousands will still blindly follow him and the ministries that support him.
Such a situation must surely be seen a clear line in the sand, and only the most immature new believer could have any excuse for getting caught up in the Bentley circus. A clearer indication could not be given – those “ministers” who support and promote Bentley are exposing their own falsehood and those who willing cling to an allegiance to those men and women are wilfully ignoring the blatantly obvious, choosing a lie instead of the truth.
Apart from those who willingly ignore the apostasy of Bentley and his supporters, I see another danger arising from this situation. By concentrating on exposing Bentley and his false gospel other more subtle errors will be overlooked.
In Australia there we have some very real dangers in the ocean. We have the sharks – large predatory fish that mostly, with the right precautions, can be detected and avoided before they present a real threat (my sister is an observer on an aerial shark patrol). We also have some very tiny jellyfish with an extremely toxic sting. They are not as easily noticeable and protection from the danger they present will only come through awareness of their territory.
I see Bentley and his supporters as being like the sharks. They are blatantly obvious to those who are both willing to look for the signs and to listen to the warnings of those in a position to detect the danger.
Other false theologies are not so easily recognised. They are well camouflaged and slip through the defences. Like the toxic jelly fish they may have an appearance of being the same as their surroundings and their dangerous presence is not acknowledged or observed.
Ironically many of those who recognise the clear dangers of the likes of Bentley are not so discerning when it comes to more (apparently) subtle theological errors.
I have often read about the lack of discernment among those who follow Bentley. I don’t think that is the problem. It takes NO discernment to recognise the falsehood of his “ministry” and those who promote him.
What is lacking is an understanding of the TRUE gospel of Jesus Christ – and even worse than that, a lack of relationship with the TRUE Jesus Christ. These people promote a false gospel and a false saviour.
If we can’t recognise the blatantly false – what hope have we got of recognising genuinely deceptive (more subtle) false teachings and practices?
Such a situation must surely be seen a clear line in the sand, and only the most immature new believer could have any excuse for getting caught up in the Bentley circus. A clearer indication could not be given – those “ministers” who support and promote Bentley are exposing their own falsehood and those who willing cling to an allegiance to those men and women are wilfully ignoring the blatantly obvious, choosing a lie instead of the truth.
Apart from those who willingly ignore the apostasy of Bentley and his supporters, I see another danger arising from this situation. By concentrating on exposing Bentley and his false gospel other more subtle errors will be overlooked.
In Australia there we have some very real dangers in the ocean. We have the sharks – large predatory fish that mostly, with the right precautions, can be detected and avoided before they present a real threat (my sister is an observer on an aerial shark patrol). We also have some very tiny jellyfish with an extremely toxic sting. They are not as easily noticeable and protection from the danger they present will only come through awareness of their territory.I see Bentley and his supporters as being like the sharks. They are blatantly obvious to those who are both willing to look for the signs and to listen to the warnings of those in a position to detect the danger.
Other false theologies are not so easily recognised. They are well camouflaged and slip through the defences. Like the toxic jelly fish they may have an appearance of being the same as their surroundings and their dangerous presence is not acknowledged or observed.Ironically many of those who recognise the clear dangers of the likes of Bentley are not so discerning when it comes to more (apparently) subtle theological errors.
I have often read about the lack of discernment among those who follow Bentley. I don’t think that is the problem. It takes NO discernment to recognise the falsehood of his “ministry” and those who promote him.
What is lacking is an understanding of the TRUE gospel of Jesus Christ – and even worse than that, a lack of relationship with the TRUE Jesus Christ. These people promote a false gospel and a false saviour.
If we can’t recognise the blatantly false – what hope have we got of recognising genuinely deceptive (more subtle) false teachings and practices?
Friday, January 22, 2010
AUGUSTINE. An article by William Birch
Here is an link to a recommended article AUGUSTINE: THE INTRODUCTION OF AUGUSTINIANISM (AND LATER CALVINISM) INTO THE CHURCH
By William Birch (excerpt below).
By William Birch (excerpt below).
When one considers the amount of false, and at times heretical, views to which he held, it is truly a wonder how he became such an authority or cherished figure in the Protestant Church. In some circles, to quote Augustine is tantamount to quoting Scripture.
But for the purpose of this post, one thing stands out above his other errors. It is more than merely interesting that Augustine was the first one to introduce the idea that God had unconditionally elected some unto faith and salvation by decree and not others. And this he did not attribute to God's foreknowledge of forseen faith or rejection of Christ, as did his predecessors, but to God's sole prior decision and delight.
Even more shocking, however, in light of his novelty of unconditional election, was his statement, that, "It is, indeed, to be wondered at, and greatly to be wondered at, that to some of His own children ~ whom He has regenerated in Christ ~ to whom He has given faith, hope, and love, God does not give perseverance also." One seldom hears the Calvinist quoting this statement from Augustine.
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Friday, January 15, 2010
David Pawson sermon links
David Pawson’s ministry has helped me in many ways. In particular his insistence that people should search the scriptures for themselves.
He has preached in some very unlikely places without compromising his message. At times his audience has been less than receptive and at times he has experienced violent vocal objection from his hearers.
Here are a few links that currently give free access to some of his teaching.
http://www.davidpawson.com/anchor/anchor.nsf/MP3-ListFree?openform
http://davidpawsondownloads.com/catalog.php?action=EditorsChoice
http://www.newchristian.org.uk/churchresources.html
(scroll down a little way until you find the heading: “***FREE BIBLE TEACHING BY REV DAVID PAWSON***
http://www.skyebiblechurch.net/Sermons.html
(scroll to last two sermons on the list)
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He has preached in some very unlikely places without compromising his message. At times his audience has been less than receptive and at times he has experienced violent vocal objection from his hearers.
Here are a few links that currently give free access to some of his teaching.
http://www.davidpawson.com/anchor/anchor.nsf/MP3-ListFree?openform
http://davidpawsondownloads.com/catalog.php?action=EditorsChoice
http://www.newchristian.org.uk/churchresources.html
(scroll down a little way until you find the heading: “***FREE BIBLE TEACHING BY REV DAVID PAWSON***
http://www.skyebiblechurch.net/Sermons.html
(scroll to last two sermons on the list)
.
HE’s BA-ACK (the attempted return of Bentley’s revival and related abominations)
What is REALLY being brought into the church?
The practices and “Christian” groups mentioned here are the ones to which I was refering in my earlier article: “Thoughts on gifts of snakes and fish”.
KUNDALINI WARNING – Urgent
by Andrew Strom.
I just saw the video of Rick Joyner announcing that Todd Bentley is back ministering every night at Morningstar in North Carolina and now they have so-called “revival” manifestations eerily similar to Lakeland. They also announced that they are streaming these big meetings every night on their new TV channel – and they are
greatly promoting the whole thing.
Now I am a tongues-speaking Pentecostal myself – but can I ask a simple question here please? What kind of “spirit” was it operating in the Lakeland revival – when the leader and main focal-point of the meetings (Todd Bentley) was having an adulterous
affair behind the scenes? Was it truly the “Holy” Spirit that was anointing something so sensual and unholy? And now that Todd divorced his wife and married his mistress – are we supposed to welcome him back and this “anointing” with him? What is going on here? Rick Joyner has been warned very specifically by high-level ministries not to do what he is doing now – bringing Todd Bentley back into the limelight. And yet it seems he does not care. Apparently the “manifestations” are all that matter.
So what exactly are these ‘manifestations’ if they are seemingly at home in such an unholy environment? Are they from God at all? (I am talking here about the violent “jerking”, uncontrollable laughter, bodily contortions, drunkenness, ‘portals’, strange “angel” encounters, etc.) Why do we not see such an ‘anointing’ in the Bible? Why aren’t Jesus or the apostles promoting these manifestations if they really are true Revival? Why instead do we see these things all the way through the New Age and Hinduism, etc?
Do we not realize that many false religions have their own version of “laying on of hands” that results in these very types of manifestations? This ’spirit’ is not in the Bible – but it is all the way through Kundalini-type Hinduism! Don’t you think this should alarm us?
WHAT is KUNDALINI?
If you search for Kundalini and Shakti on the Internet, you will findthat multitudes of people in the New Age and Eastern religions still experience these powerful manifestations. Often this is with the help of a Guru, who touches them on the forehead so that they can experience a “Kundalini Awakening”.
As researcher Robert Walker wrote in 1995:
“The meetings which mystic Hindu gurus hold are called ‘Darshan’. At these meetings devotees go forward to receive spiritual experience from a touch by the open palm of the hand, often to the forehead, by the guru in what is known as the Shakti Pat or divine touch. The raising of the spiritual experience is called raising Kundalini…
After a period when the devotee has reached a certain spiritual elevation they begin to shake, jerk, or hop or squirm uncontrollably, sometimes breaking into uncontrolled animal noises or laughter as they reach an ecstatic high. These manifestations are called ‘Kriyas’. Devotees sometimes roar like lions and show all kinds of physical signs during this period. Often devotees move on to higher states of spiritual consciousness and become inert physically and appear to slip into an unconsciousness…”
And as the guru Shri Yogãnandji Mahãrãja wrote:
“When Your body begins trembling, hair stands on roots, you laugh
or begin to weep without your wishing, your tongue begins to utter deformed sounds, you are filled with fear or see frightening visions… the Kundalini Shakti has become active.”
In China there is a popular Kundalini-type movement called ‘Qigong’.
When a Chinese Qigong spiritual master spoke in the USA in 1991, the San Francisco Chronicle reported that many in the crowd began to experience “spontaneous movements”. The master told his audience, “Those who are sensitive might start having some strong physical sensations – or start laughing or crying. Don’t worry. This is quite normal.”
When you see videos of these “kriyas” or other Kundalini-type manifestations, you would often swear that you are watching a modern “Impartation”-type church meeting. (And I say this as someone who believes strongly in the gifts of the Holy Spirit. I just don’t believe in “alien” anointings infiltrating the Body of Christ! There is a big difference between Kundalini and the real Holy Spirit).
Since 1993-4, I believe a foreign spirit has been allowed to invade the church – first through Rodney Howard-Browne’s ministry – then Toronto, then the Prophetic movement (which I was part of at the time) and on into Lakeland and many other ministries and movements. I urge people now to “test the spirits” just as we are commanded to in Scripture. Do not let just anyone lay hands on you. This is a powerful spirit and it has the backing of a lot of big-name ministries. In fact, these men and women are the very ones responsible for allowing it to spread right through the body of Christ. And one day they will be answerable to God for doing so.
We are specifically warned in the Bible that the Last Days will be a time of “seducing spirits,” false prophets, ‘lying signs and wonders,’ and that we always need to watch for “angels of light” masquerading as the real thing. Why does the modern church not take these warnings seriously? Aren’t we living in the very days that the Bible warns about?
Right now I need to do something that I have never done in such a way before. I have never before published a list of ministries or movements to watch out for. But this time I have to. This sickness has gone on long enough. I urge you to cut yourself off from the following ministries and their tainted “anointings” my friends.
Even though some of these people say “good things” at times, it is simply not worth having any involvement with them due to the tainted anointing that they endorse or minister in themselves. Here is the list-
(
1) Todd Bentley.
(2) Rodney Howard Browne – the so-called “Holy Ghost Bartender.”
(2) Rick Joyner or anyone connected with Morningstar Ministries.
(3) John Arnott & any connected with TACF (The “Toronto Blessing”).
(4) Peter Wagner of the ‘New Apostolic Reformation’ who claims to be head of a worldwide network of ‘apostles’ – who publicly endorsed Lakeland and will soon preach at Toronto TACF alongside other “false anointing” advocates.
(5) Mike Bickle and IHOP Kansas City (-I lived nearby for over two years – and know how much they are into all this stuff. Mike Bickle promotes it in his book).
(6) Bob Jones – the Kansas City prophet whose ministry is utterly tainted by it all.
(7) Patricia King and anyone else from ‘Extreme Prophetic.’
(8) John Crowder & anyone connected with “Sloshfest.”
(9) Bill Johnson of Bethel church, Redding – who says some good things but publicly endorsed Lakeland and promotes the “false anointing” very strongly behind the scenes.
(10) Heidi & Rolland Baker of IRIS Ministries – who do good work amongst the poor in Mozambique – but who have also carried and promoted this tainted anointing for years.
(11) Randy Clark, Wes & Stacey Campbell, and other key figures from the “Toronto blessing.”
(12) The Elijah List – and almost anyone featured on it. Of course there are a huge number of lesser-known preachers and ministries who carry or endorse this Kundalini-type “anointing” around the world. But I have concentrated here on the most influential that I know of. It really is an enormous issue in the church. I urge anyone who is a supporter of any of the above ministries to really check them out thoroughly. If you find (as I have) that they carry or endorse this false Kundalini spirit in the church, then please stop supporting them in any way – and whatever you do, don’t let them “lay hands” on you!
I am putting everything on the line to be “naming names” like this.
But I believe it is that serious. How on earth did we get to the point where “kriyas” just like Hinduism are spreading through the church?
Andrew Strom is a student of “Revivals” and has a website revivalschool.com
The practices and “Christian” groups mentioned here are the ones to which I was refering in my earlier article: “Thoughts on gifts of snakes and fish”.
KUNDALINI WARNING – Urgent
by Andrew Strom.
I just saw the video of Rick Joyner announcing that Todd Bentley is back ministering every night at Morningstar in North Carolina and now they have so-called “revival” manifestations eerily similar to Lakeland. They also announced that they are streaming these big meetings every night on their new TV channel – and they are
greatly promoting the whole thing.
Now I am a tongues-speaking Pentecostal myself – but can I ask a simple question here please? What kind of “spirit” was it operating in the Lakeland revival – when the leader and main focal-point of the meetings (Todd Bentley) was having an adulterous
affair behind the scenes? Was it truly the “Holy” Spirit that was anointing something so sensual and unholy? And now that Todd divorced his wife and married his mistress – are we supposed to welcome him back and this “anointing” with him? What is going on here? Rick Joyner has been warned very specifically by high-level ministries not to do what he is doing now – bringing Todd Bentley back into the limelight. And yet it seems he does not care. Apparently the “manifestations” are all that matter.
So what exactly are these ‘manifestations’ if they are seemingly at home in such an unholy environment? Are they from God at all? (I am talking here about the violent “jerking”, uncontrollable laughter, bodily contortions, drunkenness, ‘portals’, strange “angel” encounters, etc.) Why do we not see such an ‘anointing’ in the Bible? Why aren’t Jesus or the apostles promoting these manifestations if they really are true Revival? Why instead do we see these things all the way through the New Age and Hinduism, etc?
Do we not realize that many false religions have their own version of “laying on of hands” that results in these very types of manifestations? This ’spirit’ is not in the Bible – but it is all the way through Kundalini-type Hinduism! Don’t you think this should alarm us?
WHAT is KUNDALINI?
If you search for Kundalini and Shakti on the Internet, you will findthat multitudes of people in the New Age and Eastern religions still experience these powerful manifestations. Often this is with the help of a Guru, who touches them on the forehead so that they can experience a “Kundalini Awakening”.
As researcher Robert Walker wrote in 1995:
“The meetings which mystic Hindu gurus hold are called ‘Darshan’. At these meetings devotees go forward to receive spiritual experience from a touch by the open palm of the hand, often to the forehead, by the guru in what is known as the Shakti Pat or divine touch. The raising of the spiritual experience is called raising Kundalini…
After a period when the devotee has reached a certain spiritual elevation they begin to shake, jerk, or hop or squirm uncontrollably, sometimes breaking into uncontrolled animal noises or laughter as they reach an ecstatic high. These manifestations are called ‘Kriyas’. Devotees sometimes roar like lions and show all kinds of physical signs during this period. Often devotees move on to higher states of spiritual consciousness and become inert physically and appear to slip into an unconsciousness…”
And as the guru Shri Yogãnandji Mahãrãja wrote:
“When Your body begins trembling, hair stands on roots, you laugh
or begin to weep without your wishing, your tongue begins to utter deformed sounds, you are filled with fear or see frightening visions… the Kundalini Shakti has become active.”
In China there is a popular Kundalini-type movement called ‘Qigong’.
When a Chinese Qigong spiritual master spoke in the USA in 1991, the San Francisco Chronicle reported that many in the crowd began to experience “spontaneous movements”. The master told his audience, “Those who are sensitive might start having some strong physical sensations – or start laughing or crying. Don’t worry. This is quite normal.”
When you see videos of these “kriyas” or other Kundalini-type manifestations, you would often swear that you are watching a modern “Impartation”-type church meeting. (And I say this as someone who believes strongly in the gifts of the Holy Spirit. I just don’t believe in “alien” anointings infiltrating the Body of Christ! There is a big difference between Kundalini and the real Holy Spirit).
Since 1993-4, I believe a foreign spirit has been allowed to invade the church – first through Rodney Howard-Browne’s ministry – then Toronto, then the Prophetic movement (which I was part of at the time) and on into Lakeland and many other ministries and movements. I urge people now to “test the spirits” just as we are commanded to in Scripture. Do not let just anyone lay hands on you. This is a powerful spirit and it has the backing of a lot of big-name ministries. In fact, these men and women are the very ones responsible for allowing it to spread right through the body of Christ. And one day they will be answerable to God for doing so.
We are specifically warned in the Bible that the Last Days will be a time of “seducing spirits,” false prophets, ‘lying signs and wonders,’ and that we always need to watch for “angels of light” masquerading as the real thing. Why does the modern church not take these warnings seriously? Aren’t we living in the very days that the Bible warns about?
Right now I need to do something that I have never done in such a way before. I have never before published a list of ministries or movements to watch out for. But this time I have to. This sickness has gone on long enough. I urge you to cut yourself off from the following ministries and their tainted “anointings” my friends.
Even though some of these people say “good things” at times, it is simply not worth having any involvement with them due to the tainted anointing that they endorse or minister in themselves. Here is the list-
(
1) Todd Bentley.
(2) Rodney Howard Browne – the so-called “Holy Ghost Bartender.”
(2) Rick Joyner or anyone connected with Morningstar Ministries.
(3) John Arnott & any connected with TACF (The “Toronto Blessing”).
(4) Peter Wagner of the ‘New Apostolic Reformation’ who claims to be head of a worldwide network of ‘apostles’ – who publicly endorsed Lakeland and will soon preach at Toronto TACF alongside other “false anointing” advocates.
(5) Mike Bickle and IHOP Kansas City (-I lived nearby for over two years – and know how much they are into all this stuff. Mike Bickle promotes it in his book).
(6) Bob Jones – the Kansas City prophet whose ministry is utterly tainted by it all.
(7) Patricia King and anyone else from ‘Extreme Prophetic.’
(8) John Crowder & anyone connected with “Sloshfest.”
(9) Bill Johnson of Bethel church, Redding – who says some good things but publicly endorsed Lakeland and promotes the “false anointing” very strongly behind the scenes.
(10) Heidi & Rolland Baker of IRIS Ministries – who do good work amongst the poor in Mozambique – but who have also carried and promoted this tainted anointing for years.
(11) Randy Clark, Wes & Stacey Campbell, and other key figures from the “Toronto blessing.”
(12) The Elijah List – and almost anyone featured on it. Of course there are a huge number of lesser-known preachers and ministries who carry or endorse this Kundalini-type “anointing” around the world. But I have concentrated here on the most influential that I know of. It really is an enormous issue in the church. I urge anyone who is a supporter of any of the above ministries to really check them out thoroughly. If you find (as I have) that they carry or endorse this false Kundalini spirit in the church, then please stop supporting them in any way – and whatever you do, don’t let them “lay hands” on you!
I am putting everything on the line to be “naming names” like this.
But I believe it is that serious. How on earth did we get to the point where “kriyas” just like Hinduism are spreading through the church?
Andrew Strom is a student of “Revivals” and has a website revivalschool.com
New Atheist Crusaders by Becky Garrison
Here's a link to a review I've written on a book I recently read.
New Atheist Crusaders, by Becky Garrison
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New Atheist Crusaders, by Becky Garrison
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Wednesday, January 13, 2010
OSAS & the New Birth
Many have developed an understanding of regeneration/ the new birth in which they believe that the experience makes the regenerated individual immune to the possibility of falling away. They believe that those who are truly born again are new creatures who, according to that new nature, cannot turn from Christ.
This belief will then move further down the path to claim that any who do fall away were never saved anyway but were mistaken in their belief that their relationship with Jesus was ever real.
This is a common excuse used by those supporting ideas of “Once Saved Always Saved”.
It’s not surprising that those who hold to that view also have no hesitation in believing that they themselves ARE truly saved and would never have their faith exposed as being false by some future abandonment of it. But, apart from pride, can any of them be TRULY sure that their faith is genuine enough to last the distance?
This belief will then move further down the path to claim that any who do fall away were never saved anyway but were mistaken in their belief that their relationship with Jesus was ever real.
This is a common excuse used by those supporting ideas of “Once Saved Always Saved”.
It’s not surprising that those who hold to that view also have no hesitation in believing that they themselves ARE truly saved and would never have their faith exposed as being false by some future abandonment of it. But, apart from pride, can any of them be TRULY sure that their faith is genuine enough to last the distance?
"if you think you are standing firm, be careful that you don’t fall!"
1 Cor 10:12
"Do not be arrogant, but tremble. For if God did not spare the natural branches, he will not spare you either. Consider therefore the kindness and sternness of God: sternness to those who fell, but kindness to you, provided that you continue in his kindness. Otherwise, you also will be cut off." Romans 11
Tuesday, January 12, 2010
ONCE SAVE ALWAYS SAVED? – Not according to scripture!
Just as God does not compel anyone to be saved, neither does He compel anyone to remain in His saving grace.
Just as He has given mankind the responsibility of responding to His grace through faith, likewise mankind is given the responsibility of remaining faithful.
Note that little word with the big meaning: “IF”.
Reconciliation with God through Christ, being presented to Him as holy, without blemish and free from accusation is CONDITIONAL upon our continuing in our faith, being established and firm, not moving from the hope held out in the gospel. If those conditions aren’t met then the promises associated with those conditions are not applicable.
Again, there are a lot of “IFs” pointing out conditions.
Be aware that these statements are made to a believer and are inclusive of the writer, Paul. He writes “If WE disown Him He will disown US”.
The reference to God’s faithfulness at the end of this excerpt is NOT saying that He will remain faithful to us no matter how unfaithful we may be to Him.
That statement is to warn us that God remains faithful to HIMSELF, (i.e. He will not go back on His word regarding the disowning of those who disown Him).
This is the first of three New Testament warnings that use Israel’s wilderness experience as a warning to believers. God freed Hundreds of thousands from bondage in Egypt, but due to their unfaithfulness, all but two of the freed adults failed to enter the Promised Land. The rest fell away through disobedience and perished in the wilderness.
Warnings using the same example of Israel’s wilderness experience can be found in Hebrews and Jude.
Paul gives a very strong admonition here to those who may be a little too smug about their assumed security: “if you think you are standing firm, be careful that you don’t fall!”
This is very similar to a warning Paul gives in Romans. Again it relates to the experience of Israel, warning believers that disobedience among believers will lead to the same result as that experienced by the disobedient in Israel.
This also cautions about the arrogance of assuming our security if certain conditions are not being met. Again Israel’s unbelief is referenced. We need to remember that even though they were God’s elect nation they were not secure from the consequences of continued disobedience and unbelief.
With that example, how can anyone have the arrogance to presume that God will keep THEM secure, guaranteeing the salvation of professing believers, if that profession is not accompanied by active and obedient faithfulness?
Here Paul points to the importance of both our doctrine and also the way our life is lived in practice, linking them to our own salvation and also that of those who are influenced by us. The example Jesus gave of a millstone around the neck comes to mind here* – as does James’ warning about desiring to be a teacher**. Not only is our own salvation a concern, but also the salvation of those who are influenced by our life and our doctrine.
I don’t know whether anything could be made clearer. This excerpt is explicitly clear about the possibility of falling away and it also describes the very serious consequences of doing so. What stronger reason could we have for ensuring that we remain faithful to Him?
The wording here is quite interesting when it says someone who has fallen away can not “be brought back to repentance” – to my understanding this suggests that the person themselves will no longer respond to the conviction of the Holy Spirit and therefore can not be brought back to a required repentant state. They have so hardened their heart and seared their conscience that they have become resistant to conviction.
Again, this is clearly referring to those who HAVE been believers. There is no way of getting around the description of those who “have received the knowledge of the truth” and again, like Paul, the writer to the Hebrews includes himself in the warning. “If WE deliberately keep on sinning after WE have received”… this makes it undeniable that he is writing about those (like himself) who are believers. It should also be undeniable, considering this excerpt, that those who have at one time been believers can fall from the position of grace they once enjoyed.
Another admonition for believers to act and live in such a way that their election is made sure – why the need for such a statement (or indeed any of the others I’ve quoted) if a persons election could never be in doubt, that it was totally and permanently secure?
Here it could not be stated more clearly. Those who “have escaped the corruption of the world by knowing our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ” could be none other than Christians. The rest of the sentence is equally clear when it speaks about those who were Christians becoming re-entangled in and overcome by the corruption of the world. How could they be any worse than someone who had never believed and followed Jesus unless they faced a worse eternal outcome than someone who had never followed Jesus?
I can’t see how anyone can see these many clear references and still deny the possibility of a believer forfeiting their salvation. However, scripture goes further than spelling out the possibility and states that it is a certainty that some WILL depart from their faith.
Jesus Himself said:
And note the latter part of that quote that says those who stand firm to the end will be saved. It does not say that those who are “saved” will stand firm to the end, which is the view promoted in the term “Once Saved Always Saved”.
---------
Footnotes:
*
**
*** The turning away from the faith predicted by Jesus finds additional confirmation form Paul’s correspondence with the Thessalonians in which a falling away (apostasy) is foretold as preceding the revealing of the man of lawlessness (usually known as Antichrist). This falling away and the subsequent events described by Paul match very closely to those predicted by Jesus so Paul is clearly referring to the same time and the same things.
All bible quotes from Today's New International Version. 1099. Grand Rapids: Zondervan, © 2001, 2005.
Just as He has given mankind the responsibility of responding to His grace through faith, likewise mankind is given the responsibility of remaining faithful.
Col 1:21-23 Once you were alienated from God and were enemies in your minds because of your evil behavior. But now he has reconciled you by Christ’s physical body through death to present you holy in his sight, without blemish and free from accusation— IF you continue in your faith, established and firm, and do not move from the hope held out in the gospel.
Note that little word with the big meaning: “IF”.
Reconciliation with God through Christ, being presented to Him as holy, without blemish and free from accusation is CONDITIONAL upon our continuing in our faith, being established and firm, not moving from the hope held out in the gospel. If those conditions aren’t met then the promises associated with those conditions are not applicable.
2Ti 2:11-13 Here is a trustworthy saying:
If we died with him, we will also live with him;
if we endure, we will also reign with him. If we disown him, he will also disown us;
if we are faithless, he remains faithful, for he cannot disown himself.
Again, there are a lot of “IFs” pointing out conditions.
Be aware that these statements are made to a believer and are inclusive of the writer, Paul. He writes “If WE disown Him He will disown US”.
The reference to God’s faithfulness at the end of this excerpt is NOT saying that He will remain faithful to us no matter how unfaithful we may be to Him.
That statement is to warn us that God remains faithful to HIMSELF, (i.e. He will not go back on His word regarding the disowning of those who disown Him).
1Co 10:11-12 These things happened to them as examples and were written down as warnings for us, on whom the culmination of the ages has come.
So, if you think you are standing firm, be careful that you don’t fall!
This is the first of three New Testament warnings that use Israel’s wilderness experience as a warning to believers. God freed Hundreds of thousands from bondage in Egypt, but due to their unfaithfulness, all but two of the freed adults failed to enter the Promised Land. The rest fell away through disobedience and perished in the wilderness.
Warnings using the same example of Israel’s wilderness experience can be found in Hebrews and Jude.
Paul gives a very strong admonition here to those who may be a little too smug about their assumed security: “if you think you are standing firm, be careful that you don’t fall!”
This is very similar to a warning Paul gives in Romans. Again it relates to the experience of Israel, warning believers that disobedience among believers will lead to the same result as that experienced by the disobedient in Israel.
Ro 11:18-22 do not consider yourself to be superior to those other branches. If you do, consider this: You do not support the root, but the root supports you. You will say then, “Branches were broken off so that I could be grafted in.”
Granted. But they were broken off because of unbelief, and you stand by faith. Do not be arrogant, but tremble. For if God did not spare the natural branches, he will not spare you either. Consider therefore the kindness and sternness of God: sternness to those who fell, but kindness to you, provided that you continue in his kindness. Otherwise, you also will be cut off.
This also cautions about the arrogance of assuming our security if certain conditions are not being met. Again Israel’s unbelief is referenced. We need to remember that even though they were God’s elect nation they were not secure from the consequences of continued disobedience and unbelief.
With that example, how can anyone have the arrogance to presume that God will keep THEM secure, guaranteeing the salvation of professing believers, if that profession is not accompanied by active and obedient faithfulness?
1Ti 4:16 Watch your life and doctrine closely. Persevere in them, because if you do, you will save both yourself and your hearers
Here Paul points to the importance of both our doctrine and also the way our life is lived in practice, linking them to our own salvation and also that of those who are influenced by us. The example Jesus gave of a millstone around the neck comes to mind here* – as does James’ warning about desiring to be a teacher**. Not only is our own salvation a concern, but also the salvation of those who are influenced by our life and our doctrine.
Heb 6:4-8 It is impossible for those who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, who have shared in the Holy Spirit, who have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the coming age and who have fallen away, to be brought back to repentance. To their loss they are crucifying the Son of God all over again and subjecting him to public disgrace.
Land that drinks in the rain often falling on it and that produces a crop useful to those for whom it is farmed receives the blessing of God. But land that produces thorns and thistles is worthless and is in danger of being cursed. In the end it will be burned.
I don’t know whether anything could be made clearer. This excerpt is explicitly clear about the possibility of falling away and it also describes the very serious consequences of doing so. What stronger reason could we have for ensuring that we remain faithful to Him?
The wording here is quite interesting when it says someone who has fallen away can not “be brought back to repentance” – to my understanding this suggests that the person themselves will no longer respond to the conviction of the Holy Spirit and therefore can not be brought back to a required repentant state. They have so hardened their heart and seared their conscience that they have become resistant to conviction.
Heb 10:26-31 If we deliberately keep on sinning after we have received the knowledge of the truth, no sacrifice for sins is left, but only a fearful expectation of judgment and of raging fire that will consume the enemies of God. Anyone who rejected the law of Moses died without mercy on the testimony of two or three witnesses. How much more severely do you think those deserve to be punished who have trampled the Son of God underfoot, who have treated as an unholy thing the blood of the covenant that sanctified them, and who have insulted the Spirit of grace? For we know him who said, “It is mine to avenge; I will repay,” and again, “The Lord will judge his people.” It is a dreadful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.
Again, this is clearly referring to those who HAVE been believers. There is no way of getting around the description of those who “have received the knowledge of the truth” and again, like Paul, the writer to the Hebrews includes himself in the warning. “If WE deliberately keep on sinning after WE have received”… this makes it undeniable that he is writing about those (like himself) who are believers. It should also be undeniable, considering this excerpt, that those who have at one time been believers can fall from the position of grace they once enjoyed.
2Pe 1:10 Therefore, my brothers and sisters, make every effort to confirm your calling and election. For if you do these things, you will never stumble
Another admonition for believers to act and live in such a way that their election is made sure – why the need for such a statement (or indeed any of the others I’ve quoted) if a persons election could never be in doubt, that it was totally and permanently secure?
2Pe 2:20-22 If they have escaped the corruption of the world by knowing our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ and are again entangled in it and are overcome, they are worse off at the end than they were at the beginning. It would have been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than to have known it and then to turn their backs on the sacred command that was passed on to them. Of them the proverbs are true: “A dog returns to its vomit,” and, “A sow that is washed returns to her wallowing in the mud.”
Here it could not be stated more clearly. Those who “have escaped the corruption of the world by knowing our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ” could be none other than Christians. The rest of the sentence is equally clear when it speaks about those who were Christians becoming re-entangled in and overcome by the corruption of the world. How could they be any worse than someone who had never believed and followed Jesus unless they faced a worse eternal outcome than someone who had never followed Jesus?
I can’t see how anyone can see these many clear references and still deny the possibility of a believer forfeiting their salvation. However, scripture goes further than spelling out the possibility and states that it is a certainty that some WILL depart from their faith.
Jesus Himself said:
Mt 24:10-13 At that time many WILL turn away from the faith and will betray and hate each other, and many false prophets will appear and deceive many people. Because of the increase of wickedness, the love of most will grow cold, but whoever stands firm to the end will be saved.***
And note the latter part of that quote that says those who stand firm to the end will be saved. It does not say that those who are “saved” will stand firm to the end, which is the view promoted in the term “Once Saved Always Saved”.
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Footnotes:
*
Lk 17:1-2 Jesus said to his disciples: “Things that cause people to stumble are bound to come, but woe to anyone through whom they come. It would be better for you to be thrown into the sea with a millstone tied around your neck than for you to cause one of these little ones to stumble
**
Jas 3:1 Not many of you should presume to be teachers, my brothers and sisters, because you know that we who teach will be judged more strictly.
*** The turning away from the faith predicted by Jesus finds additional confirmation form Paul’s correspondence with the Thessalonians in which a falling away (apostasy) is foretold as preceding the revealing of the man of lawlessness (usually known as Antichrist). This falling away and the subsequent events described by Paul match very closely to those predicted by Jesus so Paul is clearly referring to the same time and the same things.
All bible quotes from Today's New International Version. 1099. Grand Rapids: Zondervan, © 2001, 2005.
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