An interesting and challenging article.
Sin is Past
Can You Be A "Saved" Sinner?
http://thelatterdays.blogspot.com/2010/12/sin-is-past.html
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Showing posts with label Salvation. Show all posts
Showing posts with label Salvation. Show all posts
Monday, December 20, 2010
Thursday, July 15, 2010
Observations of an Outsider
I recognise and confess to the fact that the following is based on personal observations of a very small cross section of blogs that I've found. If anyone thinks I've drawn wrong conclusions, I would welcome being pointed in the right direction.
As an outsider I see little difference between what seems to be happening in the Messianic fellowships and what is going on in the “churches”. Considering how recently the current Messianic movement started, they didn’t waste time finding reasons for disagreement. Ironically, in its attempt to provide a Jewish context for expressing faith in their messiah, most of the controversy I’ve noticed in the Messianic blogs I’ve found has been about how Messianic Jews should relate to gentile believers. Some believe there is no room for gentiles in their congregations, that non-Jewish believers should restrict themselves to attending churches and leave Jewish believers to have congregations of their own. Others see there is room for both as long as the context of the fellowship remains authentically Jewish in its expression.
A contributing factor to the problem is the increasing number of gentiles seeking fellowship within a Jewish context. Some Messianic fellowships are reportedly predominantly gentile in membership. I have even read reports that seem to suggest a prominent (gentile born) Messianic teacher has undergone (or at least seriously considered undergoing) conversion to Judaism (with all that entails), to practice his faith as a recognised Messianic Jewish “rabbi”.
Another feature muddying the Messianic waters is a belief being promoted by some non-Jews that they are descendants of the allegedly lost tribes of Israel. This modern day manifestation previously associated with British Israelism and also adopted by Mormons and the late Herbert W Armstrong’s Worldwide Church of God, has pushed its way into the Messianic movement. Of course, there is no genealogical evidence to indicate the validity of this belief. It is all attributed to “spiritual revelation”. Some Jewish believers see the intrusion of these Israelite wannabes as another example of replacement theology in action.*
The questioning of whether gentile and Jewish believers should fit together in fellowship has its foundations in carnality. There should be no separation. We are one in Him. However, due to the actions of the gentile church for at least 1700 years, a division has been created. The theological error and bigotry of a dominant, apostate, gentile church has helped to further harden Jews against the gospel of THEIR Messiah.
In the present day, when Jews are coming to faith in Messiah in increasing numbers, they are still kept at a distance by the majority of the church through the lie of replacement theology or through an apathetic ignorance regarding God’s purposes for the Jewish people. Centuries of hostility and forced assimilation are difficult to overlook, especially when present day theologies show no real evidence of repentance.
Jewish believers are therefore understandably suspicious in their relationships with gentile believers. I’m sure they want to avoid a repetition of history.
Where does the answer lie?
Scripture reveals that salvation came to the gentile to make Israel jealous.
How would that happen?
Clearly not through hostility and bigotry towards the Jewish people.
But then again, is it likely to happen through gentiles envying the Jew and trying to blend into a Jewish cultural expression?
For gentile believers to succeed in making Israel jealous, their relationship to both Israel and more importantly the God of Israel needs to stand up to God’s expectations instead of being driven by faulty theology and/or misguided sentiment.
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* It was a belief that I had not personally come across before (though I was aware of it. However in the past month I have seen it increasing promoted in a variety of places.
As an outsider I see little difference between what seems to be happening in the Messianic fellowships and what is going on in the “churches”. Considering how recently the current Messianic movement started, they didn’t waste time finding reasons for disagreement. Ironically, in its attempt to provide a Jewish context for expressing faith in their messiah, most of the controversy I’ve noticed in the Messianic blogs I’ve found has been about how Messianic Jews should relate to gentile believers. Some believe there is no room for gentiles in their congregations, that non-Jewish believers should restrict themselves to attending churches and leave Jewish believers to have congregations of their own. Others see there is room for both as long as the context of the fellowship remains authentically Jewish in its expression.
A contributing factor to the problem is the increasing number of gentiles seeking fellowship within a Jewish context. Some Messianic fellowships are reportedly predominantly gentile in membership. I have even read reports that seem to suggest a prominent (gentile born) Messianic teacher has undergone (or at least seriously considered undergoing) conversion to Judaism (with all that entails), to practice his faith as a recognised Messianic Jewish “rabbi”.
Another feature muddying the Messianic waters is a belief being promoted by some non-Jews that they are descendants of the allegedly lost tribes of Israel. This modern day manifestation previously associated with British Israelism and also adopted by Mormons and the late Herbert W Armstrong’s Worldwide Church of God, has pushed its way into the Messianic movement. Of course, there is no genealogical evidence to indicate the validity of this belief. It is all attributed to “spiritual revelation”. Some Jewish believers see the intrusion of these Israelite wannabes as another example of replacement theology in action.*
The questioning of whether gentile and Jewish believers should fit together in fellowship has its foundations in carnality. There should be no separation. We are one in Him. However, due to the actions of the gentile church for at least 1700 years, a division has been created. The theological error and bigotry of a dominant, apostate, gentile church has helped to further harden Jews against the gospel of THEIR Messiah.
In the present day, when Jews are coming to faith in Messiah in increasing numbers, they are still kept at a distance by the majority of the church through the lie of replacement theology or through an apathetic ignorance regarding God’s purposes for the Jewish people. Centuries of hostility and forced assimilation are difficult to overlook, especially when present day theologies show no real evidence of repentance.
Jewish believers are therefore understandably suspicious in their relationships with gentile believers. I’m sure they want to avoid a repetition of history.
Where does the answer lie?
Scripture reveals that salvation came to the gentile to make Israel jealous.
How would that happen?
Clearly not through hostility and bigotry towards the Jewish people.
But then again, is it likely to happen through gentiles envying the Jew and trying to blend into a Jewish cultural expression?
For gentile believers to succeed in making Israel jealous, their relationship to both Israel and more importantly the God of Israel needs to stand up to God’s expectations instead of being driven by faulty theology and/or misguided sentiment.
--------------
* It was a belief that I had not personally come across before (though I was aware of it. However in the past month I have seen it increasing promoted in a variety of places.
Friday, April 16, 2010
Predestined by God
Here is an excellent article covering predestination, Foreknowledge, OSAS, Romans 9, Free will and many other issues that have been distorted by the theologies of men.
This article brings a BIBLICAL view of these issues.
Predestined by God
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This article brings a BIBLICAL view of these issues.
Predestined by God
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Tuesday, March 30, 2010
What does SCRIPTURE say without our added interpretation?
Recently I have seen a lot of people claiming that we all “interpret” scripture because we all approach it with a particular bias. But is that really the case and to what extent do we “interpret” scripture?
As far as possible I take scripture at face value, accepting what is written without trying to redefine its clearest meaning, as long as its context does not suggest that it should be taken as being symbolic. (Regarding biblical symbolism – rarely is the reader left in ignorance about the meaning of a symbol. The interpretation is usually revealed in the text.)
Let me give you an example of accepting God’s word AS WRITTEN compared to God’s word “INTERPRETED”
BIBLICAL TEXT:
How do we address this passage:
AS WRITTEN: After Jesus’ return Satan will be imprisoned and his deceptive power over the nations will be totally removed from the earth. Jesus will reign with his saints for 1000 years. After the 1000 years Satan will be released and will gather an army to oppose the rule of Jesus. Satan will be defeated and thrown into the lake of fire. There will be a thousand year gap between Jesus’ return (and the resurrection of the saints) and a second resurrection (that of the unsaved) which will precede the judgement.
AS INTERPRETED: This 1000 years is a symbolic period representing the church age, Satan was bound by Jesus at the cross and the saints are now ruling with Christ who is seated on His throne in heaven. Jesus’ return will be immediately followed by the judgement because there is no literal 1000 year earthly reign.
This is an extreme example – but it is one that is very WIDELY applied. Am I guilty of “interpreting scripture” because I choose to believe what is actually written instead of trying to explain why it doesn’t really mean what the passage actually says?
Another example:
When scripture tells me that
And
Why should this mean anything different to what it says?
And yet many add to, change or reinterpret the meaning of these verses because taken according to their literal meaning they totally discredit their favoured doctrines.
When scripture tells me that God desires all to be saved and to come to a knowledge of the truth and that God doesn’t want any to perish – then I don’t try to “interpret” or explain those statement away to make them fit other doctrines.
When I read statements that refer to election – those references to election do not negate the truths about who God desires to be saved. Instead of ignoring or redefining the statements about God’s desires, we should look further and see WHO is said to be elected and under what conditions. Again, when we find the answer to that it would be foolish to ignore that answer because it contradicts a doctrinal bias. Especially when that answer is totally consistent with other references through scripture
Is it “INTERPRETING” these verses when we accept that they mean that God wants ALL MEN to be saved, that Jesus gave Himself as a ransom for ALL MEN, that God does not want ANYONE to perish but wants EVERYONE to come to repentance?
Is there anything in the context of these statements that would indicate that a literal meaning should not be applied?
Sometimes the intended meaning of a few verses isn’t always immediately apparent from the content of the verses themselves. If that is the case we must allow scripture to interpret scripture . In other words, what does scripture elsewhere say that will open our understanding?
For example, what are we to make of John 1?
What would this mean to us if we were reading it for the first time? There is nothing in these first two verses to tell us what or who this “Word” is. We have to read further into the chapter to see:
From this we get a better idea of what the first two verses are about. The “Word”, from the context of the following verses can be seen to be Jesus. This truth becomes even more apparent when we continue into John’s writing.
This is also the case with Ephesians 1 – one of the favourite proof text passages regarding unconditional “election”. Not only is it the case that nowhere in this chapter does it indicate that “election” is unconditional, the chapter actually spells out the condition continually.
That election and every benefit available to “the elect” are THROUGH HIM (Christ) and IN HIM. And the passage also includes the revelation of how people come to be IN HIM.
So to be in Christ someone has to hear the gospel and believe. And then being in Christ we are included in the elect. This is also totally consistent with other parts of scripture that reveal that believing or having faith in Jesus is a primary condition of salvation. (A well known example being John 3:16 – “Whoever BELIEVES will not perish…”).
During many doctrinal discussions I find myself repeating “But what does SCRIPTURE say. What are the words on the page telling us – not how can I manipulate those words to make them fit my doctrine.
Too often we are prone to “interpreting” scripture instead of submitting ourselves to its clearest and plainest meaning because that clearest meaning can be more challenging than we like. Recognising the clearest meaning would require some kind of change, whether in doctrine or behaviour. It is much more comfortable to find a way of “interpreting” the text so that uncomfortable change is not necessary.
As far as possible I take scripture at face value, accepting what is written without trying to redefine its clearest meaning, as long as its context does not suggest that it should be taken as being symbolic. (Regarding biblical symbolism – rarely is the reader left in ignorance about the meaning of a symbol. The interpretation is usually revealed in the text.)
Let me give you an example of accepting God’s word AS WRITTEN compared to God’s word “INTERPRETED”
BIBLICAL TEXT:
Revelation 20: 1-10 And I saw an angel coming down out of heaven, having the key to the Abyss and holding in his hand a great chain. He seized the dragon, that ancient serpent, who is the devil, or Satan, and bound him for a thousand years. He threw him into the Abyss, and locked and sealed it over him, to keep him from deceiving the nations anymore until the thousand years were ended. After that, he must be set free for a short time.
I saw thrones on which were seated those who had been given authority to judge. And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded because of their testimony for Jesus and because of the word of God. They had not worshiped the beast or his image and had not received his mark on their foreheads or their hands. They came to life and reigned with Christ a thousand years. (The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were ended.) This is the first resurrection. Blessed and holy are those who have part in the first resurrection. The second death has no power over them, but they will be priests of God and of Christ and will reign with him for a thousand years.
When the thousand years are over, Satan will be released from his prison and will go out to deceive the nations in the four corners of the earth—Gog and Magog—to gather them for battle. In number they are like the sand on the seashore. They marched across the breadth of the earth and surrounded the camp of God's people, the city he loves. But fire came down from heaven and devoured them. And the devil, who deceived them, was thrown into the lake of burning sulfur, where the beast and the false prophet had been thrown. They will be tormented day and night for ever and ever.
How do we address this passage:
AS WRITTEN: After Jesus’ return Satan will be imprisoned and his deceptive power over the nations will be totally removed from the earth. Jesus will reign with his saints for 1000 years. After the 1000 years Satan will be released and will gather an army to oppose the rule of Jesus. Satan will be defeated and thrown into the lake of fire. There will be a thousand year gap between Jesus’ return (and the resurrection of the saints) and a second resurrection (that of the unsaved) which will precede the judgement.
AS INTERPRETED: This 1000 years is a symbolic period representing the church age, Satan was bound by Jesus at the cross and the saints are now ruling with Christ who is seated on His throne in heaven. Jesus’ return will be immediately followed by the judgement because there is no literal 1000 year earthly reign.
This is an extreme example – but it is one that is very WIDELY applied. Am I guilty of “interpreting scripture” because I choose to believe what is actually written instead of trying to explain why it doesn’t really mean what the passage actually says?
Another example:
When scripture tells me that
“God our Savior, … wants all men to be saved and to come to a knowledge of the truth. For there is one God and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ
Jesus, who gave himself as a ransom for all men”
And
“The Lord is not slow in keeping his promise, as some understand slowness. He is
patient with you, not wanting anyone to perish, but everyone to come to repentance.”
Why should this mean anything different to what it says?
And yet many add to, change or reinterpret the meaning of these verses because taken according to their literal meaning they totally discredit their favoured doctrines.
When scripture tells me that God desires all to be saved and to come to a knowledge of the truth and that God doesn’t want any to perish – then I don’t try to “interpret” or explain those statement away to make them fit other doctrines.
When I read statements that refer to election – those references to election do not negate the truths about who God desires to be saved. Instead of ignoring or redefining the statements about God’s desires, we should look further and see WHO is said to be elected and under what conditions. Again, when we find the answer to that it would be foolish to ignore that answer because it contradicts a doctrinal bias. Especially when that answer is totally consistent with other references through scripture
Is it “INTERPRETING” these verses when we accept that they mean that God wants ALL MEN to be saved, that Jesus gave Himself as a ransom for ALL MEN, that God does not want ANYONE to perish but wants EVERYONE to come to repentance?
Is there anything in the context of these statements that would indicate that a literal meaning should not be applied?
Sometimes the intended meaning of a few verses isn’t always immediately apparent from the content of the verses themselves. If that is the case we must allow scripture to interpret scripture . In other words, what does scripture elsewhere say that will open our understanding?
For example, what are we to make of John 1?
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
He was with God in the beginning.
What would this mean to us if we were reading it for the first time? There is nothing in these first two verses to tell us what or who this “Word” is. We have to read further into the chapter to see:
The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us. We have seen his glory, the glory of the One and Only, who came from the Father, full of grace and truth.
John testifies concerning him. He cries out, saying, "This was he of whom I said, 'He who comes after me has surpassed me because he was before me.' "
From this we get a better idea of what the first two verses are about. The “Word”, from the context of the following verses can be seen to be Jesus. This truth becomes even more apparent when we continue into John’s writing.
This is also the case with Ephesians 1 – one of the favourite proof text passages regarding unconditional “election”. Not only is it the case that nowhere in this chapter does it indicate that “election” is unconditional, the chapter actually spells out the condition continually.
That election and every benefit available to “the elect” are THROUGH HIM (Christ) and IN HIM. And the passage also includes the revelation of how people come to be IN HIM.
And you also were included in Christ when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation. Having believed, you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit, who is a deposit guaranteeing our inheritance until the redemption of those who are God's possession—to the praise of his glory.
So to be in Christ someone has to hear the gospel and believe. And then being in Christ we are included in the elect. This is also totally consistent with other parts of scripture that reveal that believing or having faith in Jesus is a primary condition of salvation. (A well known example being John 3:16 – “Whoever BELIEVES will not perish…”).
During many doctrinal discussions I find myself repeating “But what does SCRIPTURE say. What are the words on the page telling us – not how can I manipulate those words to make them fit my doctrine.
Too often we are prone to “interpreting” scripture instead of submitting ourselves to its clearest and plainest meaning because that clearest meaning can be more challenging than we like. Recognising the clearest meaning would require some kind of change, whether in doctrine or behaviour. It is much more comfortable to find a way of “interpreting” the text so that uncomfortable change is not necessary.
Tuesday, March 23, 2010
“PARROT” is not a God ordained Ministry Function.
One of the most common (and most ridiculous) accusations levelled against non-Calvinists is that they believe they contribute to their own salvation.Firstly I have NEVER heard any Christian (non-Calvinist or otherwise) suggesting that any action of their own has in any way made their salvation possible.
Secondly the ONLY people I have come across who make such accusations are those who are parroting what others have said – resorting to clichéd responses learned from other Calvinists rather than through referring to the truth of the situation.
It is an accusation I am fed up of refuting because it is so ridiculous it shouldn’t really need a response. I address the issue here merely as a forewarning that any further use of this accusation in any comment will not be allowed passed the moderation stage.
I can no more contribute to may own salvation through an act of my own will than I can become a millionaire by choosing to be one.
However, if a multi-billionaire made a million dollars available to whoever would receive it, then would receiving of the freely offered gift make the receiver a contributor to their newly affluent state? Of course not! They would only be receiving what another had freely given at HIS cost and not at the receiver’s cost.
Neither does receiving God’s free gift of salvation make anyone a contributor to their own salvation. Accepting the gift doesn’t mean someone has any better attributes than the one who rejects the gift. They are merely responding to the grace that God has extended to all of mankind through the giving of His Son.
Why should it be seen that accepting God’s gift requires someone to be better, smarter, and wiser than someone who rejects it? Why not see the rejecter as someone who prefers his/her own independence? As someone who chooses to remain in their rebellious state? Why suggest that having faith in God is more of a “work” than actively resisting Him?
Of course the claim that someone willing to receive salvation must, in some way, be “better” than those rejecting it (and would therefore be contributing to their own salvation) is yet another clichéd response passed on by Calvinist teacher to unwitting student.
Wake up to the truth. Wake up to the Gospel and abandon man’s corrupt theology. Stop basing beliefs on the parrot-like repetition of theological clichés and seek revelation from God through His word by His Spirit.
Wednesday, October 14, 2009
God's Sacrifice
An article and a sermon from two different sources but addressing the same theme: the cross and the sacrificial crucifixion of Jesus.
Article from Judahslion blog
Behold the Lamb
Recorded Sermon from Art Katz
And they Crucified Him
What should be our response?
Article from Judahslion blog
Behold the Lamb
Recorded Sermon from Art Katz
And they Crucified Him
What should be our response?
Tuesday, October 06, 2009
When His Glory is Revealed.
I have often been accused of having a man-centred gospel; a gospel through which I thought I could save myself – all because I insist that faith and repentance were required conditions of man’s salvation. Many of those accusations have appeared in the comments on this blog and were made by those who insisted that God alone chose those individuals who would be saved.
Those same people follow a tradition that tells us billions of people will be thrown in hell with no chance of salvation entirely because God has not chosen them for salvation.
Somehow this “predestination” for damnation is all for God’s glory.
I know God’s ways are not our ways – but a God who needs to burn billions of people for eternity in order to bring glory to himself is less worthy of glory than a school yard bully who beats up kids half his size and half his age.
I wrote the article “God’s Glorious Gospel” when I was trying to find words to describe the incredible nature of the salvation God has provided. I realised how incapable I was of understanding the glorious nature and means of salvation sufficiently to put it into words.
However, one day the whole extent of what God has done (and is doing) will be completely revealed to those He has saved.
How much glory will He receive when the fullness of salvation is made known?
Those same people follow a tradition that tells us billions of people will be thrown in hell with no chance of salvation entirely because God has not chosen them for salvation.
Somehow this “predestination” for damnation is all for God’s glory.
I know God’s ways are not our ways – but a God who needs to burn billions of people for eternity in order to bring glory to himself is less worthy of glory than a school yard bully who beats up kids half his size and half his age.
I wrote the article “God’s Glorious Gospel” when I was trying to find words to describe the incredible nature of the salvation God has provided. I realised how incapable I was of understanding the glorious nature and means of salvation sufficiently to put it into words.
However, one day the whole extent of what God has done (and is doing) will be completely revealed to those He has saved.
How much glory will He receive when the fullness of salvation is made known?
Thursday, September 17, 2009
Salvation: Fire Insurance or Extreme Makeover?
How much do we really understand about “salvation”? To most people it seems to mean salvation from an eternity in hell. Therefore our eyes become set on our ultimate future instead of our lives here and now.
But does scripture EVER portray salvation as an escape from hell? It may be surprising to find that most references to eternal damnation are directed towards believers.
Hell was not used as an incentive to turn sinners into saints. If anything it was an incentive for believers to remain faithful and to maintain their fear of God.
The New Testament message of salvation is far different to the common idea of someone stepping from a state of “unsaved” to “saved”. Yet many people understand that a single step is all it takes. Whether that step comes by God “unconditionally electing” a people, or through those people making a personal response to a preached gospel message, the common idea sees an instant safety from eternal damnation has been obtained. But is that the case?
Romans 8:29 is often used to support the Calvinist idea of an elect few being “predestined” for salvation. Yet the actual reference is not addressing “salvation” (at least NOT the common understanding of salvation). Instead predestination is associated with being “conformed to the likeness of his Son”.
To me there seems to be much more profound and challenging being revealed here than an alleged “elect” group being given an undeserved “get out of hell” free card.
Peter also wrote about being “partakers of the divine nature” – something made possible by God through “great and precious promises” and “His divine power has given to us all things that pertain to life and godliness”. Again this tells us something about God’s intention for His people – to be “conformed to the likeness of His Son”
Salvation is not about our future destiny it is about NOW. It is about being brought into relationship with God NOW. It is about being transformed NOW. It is about trusting in God NOW. It is submitting ourselves to God and His provision NOW so that day by day we increasingly become partakers of the divine nature. Day by day we are increasingly conformed to His likeness until that day when “the dead will be raised imperishable, and we will be changed” and He “will transform our lowly bodies so that they will be like his glorious body” and “ we shall be like him, for we shall see him as he is”.
Jesus told us that He is the way the truth and the life no one comes to the Father except through Him. He did not say He is the way the truth and the life and no one avoids hell except through Him.
A secure eternal destiny, being with God in His new creation, is a continuation of our salvation. It is the result of a life lived IN salvation – a life lived IN CHRIST and obtaining a family likeness. It is the result of an ongoing relationship with God. Salvation is intended to bring us into that relationship. Escape from hell is a mere fringe benefit.
But does scripture EVER portray salvation as an escape from hell? It may be surprising to find that most references to eternal damnation are directed towards believers.
Hell was not used as an incentive to turn sinners into saints. If anything it was an incentive for believers to remain faithful and to maintain their fear of God.
“I tell you, my friends, do not be afraid of those who kill the body and after that can do no more. But I will show you whom you should fear: Fear him who, after the killing of the body, has power to throw you into hell. Yes, I tell you, fear him”. (Luke 12: 4-5)
The New Testament message of salvation is far different to the common idea of someone stepping from a state of “unsaved” to “saved”. Yet many people understand that a single step is all it takes. Whether that step comes by God “unconditionally electing” a people, or through those people making a personal response to a preached gospel message, the common idea sees an instant safety from eternal damnation has been obtained. But is that the case?
Romans 8:29 is often used to support the Calvinist idea of an elect few being “predestined” for salvation. Yet the actual reference is not addressing “salvation” (at least NOT the common understanding of salvation). Instead predestination is associated with being “conformed to the likeness of his Son”.
To me there seems to be much more profound and challenging being revealed here than an alleged “elect” group being given an undeserved “get out of hell” free card.
Peter also wrote about being “partakers of the divine nature” – something made possible by God through “great and precious promises” and “His divine power has given to us all things that pertain to life and godliness”. Again this tells us something about God’s intention for His people – to be “conformed to the likeness of His Son”
Salvation is not about our future destiny it is about NOW. It is about being brought into relationship with God NOW. It is about being transformed NOW. It is about trusting in God NOW. It is submitting ourselves to God and His provision NOW so that day by day we increasingly become partakers of the divine nature. Day by day we are increasingly conformed to His likeness until that day when “the dead will be raised imperishable, and we will be changed” and He “will transform our lowly bodies so that they will be like his glorious body” and “ we shall be like him, for we shall see him as he is”.
Jesus told us that He is the way the truth and the life no one comes to the Father except through Him. He did not say He is the way the truth and the life and no one avoids hell except through Him.
A secure eternal destiny, being with God in His new creation, is a continuation of our salvation. It is the result of a life lived IN salvation – a life lived IN CHRIST and obtaining a family likeness. It is the result of an ongoing relationship with God. Salvation is intended to bring us into that relationship. Escape from hell is a mere fringe benefit.
Wednesday, September 09, 2009
Hell: Reason and Necessity.
The thought of God condemning people to hell seems to be a problem for many people. The problem is perhaps increased if we listen to some who say that God does not desire to throw any of mankind into hell but will do so anyway. So what is the situation regarding hell and what were God’s alternatives? Why does there need to be a “hell” and why does anyone need to be condemned to it?
Maybe we can look at some differing scenarios:
1) God allows a moral free-for-all in which no one is held accountable for anything. Therefore no need for hell. (But this earth would be as bad as hell anyway with no moral restraints).
2) God denies mankind any freedom of choice at all. He programmes everyone to be (and to remain) morally perfect. In other words he ends up with a puppet race controlled entirely by Himself. (But there can't be much joy in a family made up of dolls that say "I love you daddy" every time you press the right button). In such a scenario there would be no need for any of mankind to be thrown in hell.
3) Repeat the "denial of choice" scenario of alternative 2, but this time God actually WANTS to throw the majority of mankind into hell. He selects a chosen few (“the elect”) whom He has predestined to save, but He predestines the rest to burn for eternity as a demonstration of His justice. This will bring Him great glory.
Of course those who are thrown in hell are treated in this way because they are depraved sinners and not because God brought them into existence with a depraved and sinful nature: even though they had no choice about that nature and no opportunity to be free from it – that nature being a result of God’s sovereign choice. [Oh the wonders of Calvinism!]
4) God creates mankind with the ability to choose, so that He can obtain a people who will willingly follow Him. This option cuts both ways. The freedom to choose obedience also creates the freedom to rebel.
Such a scenario seems fine in theory, but what if we can’t live up to the standard God expects? According to the bible God has provided for that reality by putting everyone on a level playing field where no one is more advantaged/disadvantaged than anyone else. Romans 11 states that ALL were bound over to disobedience so that He may have mercy on ALL. In this scenario NO ONE is able to fulfil God’s expectations according to our own efforts, but He has provided a way for us to be acceptable through relying on His mercy. This is the message of the gospel of Jesus Christ through which He has made it possible for the worst of men to turn towards God and be changed from a sinner to a saint.
Not only does God give us the choice of turning towards Him, He also adds a big incentive to do so. To the obedient He promises an eventual new creation which will NOT have the potential for evil; from which all rebellion will be barred. It will be populated by only those who have already chosen His (the creator's) way in this current creation.
However, what becomes of those who reject God and His promise?
Jesus describes their destiny in the terms of a garbage dump; using Gehenna, Jerusalem's dump as an illustration.
Like anything that does not fulfil its intended purpose, those who continue in rebellion against God' purpose for them will be thrown out as garbage.
This is NOT done arbitrarily. We ALL have the choice to recognise and respond to our creator in the way that He desires. But most prefer to go their own way and kick against any idea of there being a greater authority to whom they are accountable. Such is the arrogance of mankind. And hell is the ultimate result of ignoring personal accountability in a moral universe created by a Holy, Just and Righteous God
Maybe we can look at some differing scenarios:
1) God allows a moral free-for-all in which no one is held accountable for anything. Therefore no need for hell. (But this earth would be as bad as hell anyway with no moral restraints).
2) God denies mankind any freedom of choice at all. He programmes everyone to be (and to remain) morally perfect. In other words he ends up with a puppet race controlled entirely by Himself. (But there can't be much joy in a family made up of dolls that say "I love you daddy" every time you press the right button). In such a scenario there would be no need for any of mankind to be thrown in hell.
3) Repeat the "denial of choice" scenario of alternative 2, but this time God actually WANTS to throw the majority of mankind into hell. He selects a chosen few (“the elect”) whom He has predestined to save, but He predestines the rest to burn for eternity as a demonstration of His justice. This will bring Him great glory.
Of course those who are thrown in hell are treated in this way because they are depraved sinners and not because God brought them into existence with a depraved and sinful nature: even though they had no choice about that nature and no opportunity to be free from it – that nature being a result of God’s sovereign choice. [Oh the wonders of Calvinism!]
4) God creates mankind with the ability to choose, so that He can obtain a people who will willingly follow Him. This option cuts both ways. The freedom to choose obedience also creates the freedom to rebel.
Such a scenario seems fine in theory, but what if we can’t live up to the standard God expects? According to the bible God has provided for that reality by putting everyone on a level playing field where no one is more advantaged/disadvantaged than anyone else. Romans 11 states that ALL were bound over to disobedience so that He may have mercy on ALL. In this scenario NO ONE is able to fulfil God’s expectations according to our own efforts, but He has provided a way for us to be acceptable through relying on His mercy. This is the message of the gospel of Jesus Christ through which He has made it possible for the worst of men to turn towards God and be changed from a sinner to a saint.
Not only does God give us the choice of turning towards Him, He also adds a big incentive to do so. To the obedient He promises an eventual new creation which will NOT have the potential for evil; from which all rebellion will be barred. It will be populated by only those who have already chosen His (the creator's) way in this current creation.
However, what becomes of those who reject God and His promise?
Jesus describes their destiny in the terms of a garbage dump; using Gehenna, Jerusalem's dump as an illustration.
Like anything that does not fulfil its intended purpose, those who continue in rebellion against God' purpose for them will be thrown out as garbage.
This is NOT done arbitrarily. We ALL have the choice to recognise and respond to our creator in the way that He desires. But most prefer to go their own way and kick against any idea of there being a greater authority to whom they are accountable. Such is the arrogance of mankind. And hell is the ultimate result of ignoring personal accountability in a moral universe created by a Holy, Just and Righteous God
Monday, July 06, 2009
LIMITED ATONEMENT IN JOHN 10?
In the comments section of my previous article (Election, Salvation & God’s Purposes) I was asked the following (relating to John 10):
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I see that the question above specifically relates to the Calvinist doctrine of “Limited Atonement” but a second Calvinist doctrine is also inferred due to its close relationship to the first. It is that of Unconditional Election: that God unconditionally elected some to be saved, and that Jesus laid down His life ONLY for those whom God had unconditionally elected for salvation.
Firstly, before considering the portion of scripture quoted, I again draw attention to the fact that scripture as a whole is a revelation of God and His purposes. Any interpretation of a PORTION of scripture MUST be compatible with the revelation contained in the rest of scripture. If an interpretation contradicts the clear meaning of the rest of scripture, that interpretation is clearly wrong.
The excerpt from John, taken in isolation, could be seen to give some support for the Calvinist doctrines that are alluded to in the question. However, should that inferred support lead us to ignore very CLEAR statements elsewhere in scripture that categorically say that God desires ALL to be saved and that he provided His Son to die for ALL and not a limited few?
“This is good, and it is pleasing in the sight of God our Saviour, who desires ALL people to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth.”(1Ti 2:3-4)
“The Lord is not slow to fulfill his promise as some count slowness, but is patient toward you, not wishing that any should perish, but that ALL should reach repentance.” (2Pe 3:9)
"For God so loved THE WORLD, that he gave his only Son, that WHOEVER believes in him should not perish but have eternal life.
For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that THE WORLD MIGHT BE SAVED through him. (John 3:16 -17)
“And I, when I am lifted up from the earth, will draw ALL people to myself." (Joh 12:32)
“For God has consigned all to disobedience, that he may have mercy on ALL.” (Rom 11:32)
Could any statements about God’s will be CLEARER than those? Are they in any way compatible with the view that God has already chosen an elect few to be saved, and by His will and His will alone has determined that the rest will be damned for eternity?
Therefore is it even remotely possible that John 10 is promoting those Calvinist doctrines of limited atonement and unconditional election when it is made blatantly clear elsewhere in scripture that He desires ALL to be saved and that he gave His Son for THE WORLD and not for a pre-elected minority?
Clearly not without some very creative redefining of what is meant by some very simple words such as ALL, the WORLD and WHOEVER.
Unfortunately, that is exactly the approach taken by those who choose to protect their theology from the exposing light of scripture. When scripture reads “ALL” the Calvinist sees “All of the elect”, and therefore changes the meaning of scripture to enable him to justify his theology.
So how do we reconcile John 10 with the broader view of scripture, as demonstrated above? Who are the sheep according to Jesus?
The answer is given half way through the excerpt from John 10.
“My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me.” (John 10:27)
His sheep are those who hear His voice and follow Him. Those who do not hear His voice and follow Him are not His sheep. We see elsewhere in scripture that there is a relationship between hearing Jesus’ word and faith.
Rom 10:17, tells us that “faith comes from hearing, and hearing through the word of Christ”.
Within its context, this quote from Romans 10 addresses Israel’s disobedience to the word they have heard. They heard the word but remained disobedient and contrary. They heard the word but did not HEED the word.
Faith (belief) will not come to those who do not hear (give heed to) the word of Christ.
This is exactly the picture of those to who Jesus is speaking in John 10. They are people who have witnessed the miraculous works Jesus has done and have heard His teaching, and yet remain contrary in nature – refusing to accept the clear evidence readily available to them, they ask for more.
They refused to heed what Jesus had already said and done and therefore were not His sheep. They did not hear his words so they were denied the faith that comes through the word of Christ.
See another passage also loved by Calvinists that Calvinists assume limits the redeemed to a group specifically chosen and given to the Son by the Father.
Joh 6:37–39 All that the Father gives me will come to me, and whoever comes to me I will never cast out. For I have come down from heaven, not to do my own will but the will of him who sent me. And this is the will of him who sent me that I should lose nothing of all that he has given me, but raise it up on the last day.
But the following verse adds the qualifying statement of :
Joh 6:40 “For this is the will of my Father, that EVERYONE who looks on the Son and believes in him should have eternal life, and I will raise him up on the last day."
EVERYONE who looks on the Son and believes in Him.
Compare with the famous John 3:16 (and especially note its context)
“And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, so must the Son of Man be lifted up, that whoever believes in him may have eternal life. “
For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him. Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only Son of God. (Joh 3:14-18)
In the wilderness everyone who LOOKED UPON the serpent were saved from the poison of the snakes. Those who chose not to look upon the serpent were not saved.
Likewise, it is the will of that Father that EVERYONE who looks on the Son and believes in Him should have eternal life. Those are the ones who the Father gives to Jesus, those who look upon Him and believe in Him.
Who are those able to believe in Him?
Those who hear and give heed to His word.
Rom 1:16 “For I am not ashamed of the gospel, for it is the power of God for salvation to everyone who believes”
“If anyone has ears to hear, let him hear."
“He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says…”
Therefore, as the Holy Spirit says, "Today, if you hear his voice, do not harden your hearts as in the rebellion, on the day of testing in the wilderness, where your fathers put me to the test and saw my works for forty years.
Therefore I was provoked with that generation, and said, 'They always go astray in their heart; they have not known my ways.'
As I swore in my wrath, 'They shall not enter my rest.'"
Take care, brothers, lest there be in any of you an evil, unbelieving heart, leading you to fall away from the living God.
But exhort one another every day, as long as it is called "today," that none of you may be hardened by the deceitfulness of sin.
For we have come to share in Christ, if indeed we hold our original confidence firm to the end.
As it is said, "Today, if you hear his voice, do not harden your hearts as in the rebellion."
For who were those who heard and yet rebelled? Was it not all those who left Egypt led by Moses?
And with whom was he provoked for forty years? Was it not with those who sinned, whose bodies fell in the wilderness?
And to whom did he swear that they would not enter his rest, but to those who were disobedient?
So we see that they were unable to enter because of unbelief. (Heb 3:7-19 )
Relationship with Jesus is conditional upon BELIEVING in Him. Belief (faith) in Him comes through hearing (giving heed to) His word and acting upon it.
Who are the sheep that are able to believe in Jesus? Those who give heed to his word and follow Him.
How can they give heed to his word? Because there is POWER to SAVE in HIS gospel.
So who are you going to hear and heed? Jesus and HIS word? Or the word of man's theology?
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I have a question; I am curious as to how non-Calvinists will understand a text that (I think) plainly teaches a distinction between those for whom Christ died for and whom he didn't die for. You claim that Jesus died for everyone in your post, so I suppose it is relevant.
How do you interpret the text from the Gospel of John where Jesus is recorded as saying the following:
22 At that time the Feast of Dedication took place at Jerusalem. It was winter,
23 and Jesus was walking in the temple, in the colonnade of Solomon.
24 So the Jews gathered around him and said to him, “How long will you keep us in suspense? If you are the Christ, tell us plainly.”
25 Jesus answered them, “I told you, and you do not believe. The works that I do in my Father's name bear witness about me,
26 but you do not believe because you are not part of my flock.
27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me.
28 I give them eternal life, and they will never perish, and no one will snatch them out of my hand.
29 My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all, and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father's hand.
30 I and the Father are one.”
And prior to this Jesus claims that he lays his life down for the sheep.
Here he clearly, it seems to me, describes two different group of persons: the sheep, for whom he lays his life down, those whom the Father had given him, who will never die (because they have eternal life); the non-sheep, who don't believe in him because they are not a part of his flock, for whom he does not lay his life.
This text seems clear to me; it may not teach exactly what I understand it as teaching however.
What sense can you make of it?
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I see that the question above specifically relates to the Calvinist doctrine of “Limited Atonement” but a second Calvinist doctrine is also inferred due to its close relationship to the first. It is that of Unconditional Election: that God unconditionally elected some to be saved, and that Jesus laid down His life ONLY for those whom God had unconditionally elected for salvation.
Firstly, before considering the portion of scripture quoted, I again draw attention to the fact that scripture as a whole is a revelation of God and His purposes. Any interpretation of a PORTION of scripture MUST be compatible with the revelation contained in the rest of scripture. If an interpretation contradicts the clear meaning of the rest of scripture, that interpretation is clearly wrong.
The excerpt from John, taken in isolation, could be seen to give some support for the Calvinist doctrines that are alluded to in the question. However, should that inferred support lead us to ignore very CLEAR statements elsewhere in scripture that categorically say that God desires ALL to be saved and that he provided His Son to die for ALL and not a limited few?
“This is good, and it is pleasing in the sight of God our Saviour, who desires ALL people to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth.”(1Ti 2:3-4)
“The Lord is not slow to fulfill his promise as some count slowness, but is patient toward you, not wishing that any should perish, but that ALL should reach repentance.” (2Pe 3:9)
"For God so loved THE WORLD, that he gave his only Son, that WHOEVER believes in him should not perish but have eternal life.
For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that THE WORLD MIGHT BE SAVED through him. (John 3:16 -17)
“And I, when I am lifted up from the earth, will draw ALL people to myself." (Joh 12:32)
“For God has consigned all to disobedience, that he may have mercy on ALL.” (Rom 11:32)
Could any statements about God’s will be CLEARER than those? Are they in any way compatible with the view that God has already chosen an elect few to be saved, and by His will and His will alone has determined that the rest will be damned for eternity?
Therefore is it even remotely possible that John 10 is promoting those Calvinist doctrines of limited atonement and unconditional election when it is made blatantly clear elsewhere in scripture that He desires ALL to be saved and that he gave His Son for THE WORLD and not for a pre-elected minority?
Clearly not without some very creative redefining of what is meant by some very simple words such as ALL, the WORLD and WHOEVER.
Unfortunately, that is exactly the approach taken by those who choose to protect their theology from the exposing light of scripture. When scripture reads “ALL” the Calvinist sees “All of the elect”, and therefore changes the meaning of scripture to enable him to justify his theology.
So how do we reconcile John 10 with the broader view of scripture, as demonstrated above? Who are the sheep according to Jesus?
The answer is given half way through the excerpt from John 10.
“My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me.” (John 10:27)
His sheep are those who hear His voice and follow Him. Those who do not hear His voice and follow Him are not His sheep. We see elsewhere in scripture that there is a relationship between hearing Jesus’ word and faith.
Rom 10:17, tells us that “faith comes from hearing, and hearing through the word of Christ”.
Within its context, this quote from Romans 10 addresses Israel’s disobedience to the word they have heard. They heard the word but remained disobedient and contrary. They heard the word but did not HEED the word.
Faith (belief) will not come to those who do not hear (give heed to) the word of Christ.
This is exactly the picture of those to who Jesus is speaking in John 10. They are people who have witnessed the miraculous works Jesus has done and have heard His teaching, and yet remain contrary in nature – refusing to accept the clear evidence readily available to them, they ask for more.
They refused to heed what Jesus had already said and done and therefore were not His sheep. They did not hear his words so they were denied the faith that comes through the word of Christ.
See another passage also loved by Calvinists that Calvinists assume limits the redeemed to a group specifically chosen and given to the Son by the Father.
Joh 6:37–39 All that the Father gives me will come to me, and whoever comes to me I will never cast out. For I have come down from heaven, not to do my own will but the will of him who sent me. And this is the will of him who sent me that I should lose nothing of all that he has given me, but raise it up on the last day.
But the following verse adds the qualifying statement of :
Joh 6:40 “For this is the will of my Father, that EVERYONE who looks on the Son and believes in him should have eternal life, and I will raise him up on the last day."
EVERYONE who looks on the Son and believes in Him.
Compare with the famous John 3:16 (and especially note its context)
“And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, so must the Son of Man be lifted up, that whoever believes in him may have eternal life. “
For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him. Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only Son of God. (Joh 3:14-18)
In the wilderness everyone who LOOKED UPON the serpent were saved from the poison of the snakes. Those who chose not to look upon the serpent were not saved.
Likewise, it is the will of that Father that EVERYONE who looks on the Son and believes in Him should have eternal life. Those are the ones who the Father gives to Jesus, those who look upon Him and believe in Him.
Who are those able to believe in Him?
Those who hear and give heed to His word.
Rom 1:16 “For I am not ashamed of the gospel, for it is the power of God for salvation to everyone who believes”
“If anyone has ears to hear, let him hear."
“He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says…”
Therefore, as the Holy Spirit says, "Today, if you hear his voice, do not harden your hearts as in the rebellion, on the day of testing in the wilderness, where your fathers put me to the test and saw my works for forty years.
Therefore I was provoked with that generation, and said, 'They always go astray in their heart; they have not known my ways.'
As I swore in my wrath, 'They shall not enter my rest.'"
Take care, brothers, lest there be in any of you an evil, unbelieving heart, leading you to fall away from the living God.
But exhort one another every day, as long as it is called "today," that none of you may be hardened by the deceitfulness of sin.
For we have come to share in Christ, if indeed we hold our original confidence firm to the end.
As it is said, "Today, if you hear his voice, do not harden your hearts as in the rebellion."
For who were those who heard and yet rebelled? Was it not all those who left Egypt led by Moses?
And with whom was he provoked for forty years? Was it not with those who sinned, whose bodies fell in the wilderness?
And to whom did he swear that they would not enter his rest, but to those who were disobedient?
So we see that they were unable to enter because of unbelief. (Heb 3:7-19 )
Relationship with Jesus is conditional upon BELIEVING in Him. Belief (faith) in Him comes through hearing (giving heed to) His word and acting upon it.
Who are the sheep that are able to believe in Jesus? Those who give heed to his word and follow Him.
How can they give heed to his word? Because there is POWER to SAVE in HIS gospel.
So who are you going to hear and heed? Jesus and HIS word? Or the word of man's theology?
Wednesday, July 01, 2009
ELECTION, SALVATION & GOD’S PURPOSES
(A brief summary in the form of some personal thoughts)
Salvation is CONDITIONAL. Those conditions are revealed in scripture. And include repentance and faith. God does not choose specific “elect” individuals to be saved. The elect are those who are IN CHRIST, those who are IN HIM.
The redeemed are the elect and all references to people being “elect” are directed towards the redeemed. Election does not occur apart from Christ – that means Christ comes before Election. Election does not precede our being In Christ. Whether we are in Christ or not determines whether we are part of the elect. It is NOT election that determines whether we will be In Christ.
God’s salvation plan was already established before He started His creation. Man’s fall was already factored into this even before Adam sinned. God KNEW what would happen and used that to His purposes. God did not ordain Adam’s sin but He knew the outcome before it happened. God’s salvation plan is NOT a compromised way of salvaging something good from His creation. God’s salvation plan has ALWAYS been directed towards the creation of a new heavens and a new earth to be populated by a people who willing serve Him.
The new heavens and new earth where only righteousness will dwell is the pinnacle of revelation that God has given. He has revealed nothing beyond that.
To be part of that new creation, mankind has been given a way to be freed from the sin that would prevent it. That way comes through faith in Jesus. Through turning from our own ways and turning to God (repentance), that results in fruit that is evidence of their repentance.
I understand this current creation to be a “testing ground” where our response to God in this life, in this creation, gives us the opportunity to become part of His new creation.
“Regeneration” and “born again” are terms that are used very little in scripture but some traditions have created major doctrines around those terms. At their very simplest, they describe the new start and new life we are given through Christ.
Many Calvinists teach that someone needs to be born again before they are able to believe and repent. To those people it is regeneration that changes man from a totally depraved creature and makes him capable of repenting. That prior to regeneration man is entirely incapable of reaching out to God in any way.
Scripture teaches that new life in Christ comes through faith and repentance – not vice versa.
God does not force salvation upon anyone and he does not prevent anyone from coming to Him in repentance. He has given mankind enough free will to allow each individual to respond according to the light they have received.
The preaching of the gospel is God’s way of approaching the human heart. It is the power of God that leads to salvation for those who believe. The Holy Spirit brings conviction to the hearer of the gospel and that hearer has the responsibility and opportunity to respond to the gospel. That response will either be to repent or to remain in rebellion. Eventually, those who continually resist the gospel will be hardened to its message and God will give them over to the decision they have made and will finish off the hardening process. Romans 1 & 2 describe God handing people over to those things they desire. Likewise 2 Thessalonians describes how God will send delusion to those who refuse to receive a love of the truth. Note it is up to the individual to RECEIVE the love of the truth. God does not force such a love onto anyone. To the contrary – those who don’t want to receive the truth will be given exactly what they have proven that they want: a lie, deception, delusion.
Jesus died for everyone. The atonement is not limited by God. Its benefits are for everyone but they are only received by those who receive them through faith in Jesus.
God chooses no one for salvation. His salvation is freely available to all who believe and act on that belief by repenting.
God has not preordained everything that happens. He has given mankind the freedom to act within certain constraints. The overall destiny of His creation is determined but the determination of man’s place within that destiny depends upon the individual and their response to God’s grace.
The presence of sin within the world and the fact that the world is under the influence of Satan also has an effect on events within the world and among those who have not turned to God.
God allows Satan’s influence to continue in the world because He is patiently given mankind the opportunity to repent. However that patience will one day come to an end and God will deal with the evil that has corrupted His creation.
Thursday, May 21, 2009
21 Things My Bible Didn’t Teach Me.
This list is potentially endless so I’m limiting it to those things that I’ve come across personally. Even with that limitation I might have to do a second list at a later date.
1) The correct response to the gospel in order to be saved is to either a) ask Jesus into your heart, b) say the sinner’s prayer c) respond to an “altar call” in which you do both a & b.
2) Believers will be “raptured” from the earth immediately prior to the Great Tribulation.
3) Upon death Christians go to their eternal home in heaven.
4) Satan and his demons reside in and rule their kingdom from hell.
5) Between His death and resurrection, Jesus was tormented in hell by the devil
6) Jesus victoriously snatched the keys of death and hell from the devil.
7) The devil made me do it.
8) Baptism is optional (it can also be done to babies with a sprinkling of water).
9) Sin in the life of a believer doesn’t matter because all of our sins have been forgiven
10) God loves the world so much…
11) TULIP
12) God offends the mind to reveal the heart
13) People need hours of counselling/ inner healing/ deliverance sessions to be freed from hurts and problems caused by their past.
14) Faith is a force
15) Confess and possess
16) We should not question our leaders (“touch not the Lord’s anointed!)
17) There are different kinds of anointing and some Christians are more anointed than others
18) Tongues is THE sign of being baptised in the Holy Spirit
19) Scripture doesn’t really matter
20) God knows the future because He has fore-ordained everything that will happen.
21) Man has no free will.
1) The correct response to the gospel in order to be saved is to either a) ask Jesus into your heart, b) say the sinner’s prayer c) respond to an “altar call” in which you do both a & b.
2) Believers will be “raptured” from the earth immediately prior to the Great Tribulation.
3) Upon death Christians go to their eternal home in heaven.
4) Satan and his demons reside in and rule their kingdom from hell.
5) Between His death and resurrection, Jesus was tormented in hell by the devil
6) Jesus victoriously snatched the keys of death and hell from the devil.
7) The devil made me do it.
8) Baptism is optional (it can also be done to babies with a sprinkling of water).
9) Sin in the life of a believer doesn’t matter because all of our sins have been forgiven
10) God loves the world so much…
11) TULIP
12) God offends the mind to reveal the heart
13) People need hours of counselling/ inner healing/ deliverance sessions to be freed from hurts and problems caused by their past.
14) Faith is a force
15) Confess and possess
16) We should not question our leaders (“touch not the Lord’s anointed!)
17) There are different kinds of anointing and some Christians are more anointed than others
18) Tongues is THE sign of being baptised in the Holy Spirit
19) Scripture doesn’t really matter
20) God knows the future because He has fore-ordained everything that will happen.
21) Man has no free will.
Monday, July 28, 2008
TRADITION AND THE BEGINNING OF OUR CHRISTIAN LIFE
Recently I came across the question : “Is receiving the Holy Spirit part of Salvation or is it just an added ‘bonus’?”
The answer to this requires us to ask another question. What is salvation and what are we saved from? (Or was that two questions?) This issue of receiving the Holy Spirit is merely one part of our introduction to the Christian life that has been distorted by many centuries of human tradition.
Is it coincidence that so much controversy centres on those issues that are foundational; the things that focus on the very beginnings of Christian life, the things that ensure we start our life of discipleship CORRECTLY?
Some people are only interested in being saved from hell, and many of those want to do the minimum required to achieve that goal. But is that what Jesus came to save us from?
Mat 1:21 And she shall bear a son, and you shall call His name JESUS: for He shall save His people from their sins.
The salvation Jesus offers is salvation from our sins. Salvation from hell is a result of being saved from our sins.
Salvation is about THIS life as much as about our eternal destiny. Therefore we need to ensure we are equipped fully to live in our salvation here and now. How can we think we are fully equipped if we ignore and reject what Jesus has provided and has told us to receive? I strongly suspect that those who are ONLY interested in escaping hell and have no interest in God changing their lives NOW, will unfortunately find themselves thrown into the hell they had hoped to avoid.
To many people initiation into Christianity has been reduced to “believing” in Jesus. Yet scripture is very clear that repentance, baptism in water and baptism in the Holy Spirit are ALL parts of the process of salvation. They are not optional extras that we can pick and choose according to our own whims. They are all essential aspects of our entry into Christ, COMMANDED by Jesus Himself. How can we say we believe in Him if we ignore, disobey, or explain away these basic, foundational things?
The dismissal or changing of these vital aspects of Christian life has come about because men’s traditions have replaced the plain and clear teaching of scripture.
REPENTANCE
In scripture, repentance required observable changes in behaviour and the turning away from sin.
In tradition, repentance is a brief, confessed recognition that we are sinners and that we are sorry for our sin.
BAPTISM
In scripture baptism is the full immersion of a repentant believer in water.
In tradition it is the sprinkling of water on an unsuspecting baby.
RECEIVING THE HOLY SPIRIT
In scripture this occurs with observable evidence – most often the evidence reported in scripture is speaking in tongues, but prophetic utterance and “magnifying God” (possibly spontaneous praise) are also mentioned. The important thing to recognise is that SOMETHING happened that convinced those present that the Spirit had been received. The Spirit was not received in a passive and unobserved way. When the Spirit came into someone’s life it was OBVIOUS that He had come.
In tradition, the Spirit is received when we “believe” – with no particular evidence that anything has happened. (Pentecostal tradition is equally erroneous to insist that tongues is the ONLY evidence.)
What does scripture say about believers receiving the Holy Spirit?
1) Jesus told us that the Holy Spirit is given to those who ask (and keep on asking; – the verb is in the Greek present continuous tense).
To ask for the Holy Spirit we need to recognise that 1) we have not yet received Him 2) That we NEED to receive Him and 3) that God is willing and able to give Him to those who continue to ask until they DO receive Him.
2) The first disciples were told to stay in Jerusalem UNTIL they had received the Holy Spirit.
3) Peter told his audience on the day of Pentecost to REPENT AND BE BAPTISED and THEN they shall receive the Holy Spirit. He did not say they should just believe in Jesus and they would receive the Holy Spirit.
4) The believers in Samaria “gave heed” to the gospel Philip preached and responded with “great joy”. The apostles heard that they “had received the Word of God” and travelled to Samaria to pray for the Samaritans so they would “receive the Holy Spirit” – note this was AFTER they had heeded and received the Word of God. They did not receive the Holy Spirit automatically. They received the Holy Spirit after the apostles laid hands on them.
5) When Cornelius and his household were filled with the Holy Spirit, Peter and his companions knew it had happened:
“For they heard them speak with tongues and magnify God.”
Upon this evidence Peter ordered that they be baptised in water.
6) The Ephesians were asked by Paul if they had received the Holy Spirit after they had believed. After determining that they hadn’t, Paul had them baptised, laid hands on them and THEN they received the Holy Spirit – again this was AFTER they had believed and AFTER they had received water baptism in the name of Jesus. How did they know they had finally received the Holy Spirit?
“ And as Paul laid his hands on them, the Holy Spirit came on them, and they spoke with tongues and prophesied.”
Only someone drawn away by tradition could argue against these CLEAR, PLAIN statements to insist that receiving the Spirit happens automatically with no discernable evidence.
Are men and their traditions above God and His Word?
Do men and their traditions decide and determine what is acceptable and needed for a believer to walk in their salvation?
Do men and their traditions determine which parts of God’s word are applicable today and which parts are mere historical records? (A common argument against the examples given in Acts – is that “Acts is merely historical it’s not doctrinal” – who gave anyone the authority to make that distinction?).
Returning to the original question: “Is receiving the Holy Spirit part of Salvation or is it just an added ‘bonus’?”
Consider Jesus Himself. At what point did He start His public ministry? When did He begin to preach, heal and deliver those who were captives?
AFTER His baptism in water and AFTER the Holy Spirit had come upon Him.
If Jesus, who is God Himself, ALSO submitted to water baptism why should we think we don’t need it? If HE needed to receive the Holy Spirit (with confirming, observable signs) why should we think we don’t need to?
Mt 3:13-15 Then Jesus came from Galilee to the Jordan to be baptized by John.
But John tried to deter him, saying, “I need to be baptized by you, and do you come to me?”
Jesus replied, “Let it be so now; it is proper for us to do this to fulfill all righteousness.”
Lk 3:21-22 When all the people were being baptized, Jesus was baptized too. And as he was praying, heaven was opened and the Holy Spirit descended on him in bodily form like a dove.
Note that even Jesus received the Holy Spirit AFTER His baptism and AFTER He had prayed.
And He received the Spirit for THIS purpose:
Lk 4:18-19 “The Spirit of the Lord is on me, because he has anointed me to proclaim good news to the poor. He has sent me to proclaim freedom for the prisoners and recovery of sight for the blind, to set the oppressed free, to proclaim the year of the Lord’s favour.”
He didn’t start His ministry until He had received the anointing of the Holy Spirit. Jesus didn’t conduct His ministry in His own name and power and according to His own authority as God.
If JESUS needed to submit Himself to these things, and if JESUS commanded His disciples to follow His example in these things – who are we to try to change them?
Who are we to try and reason our way out of obedience?
Who are we that we can choose to do things OUR way instead of Gods?
The answer to this requires us to ask another question. What is salvation and what are we saved from? (Or was that two questions?) This issue of receiving the Holy Spirit is merely one part of our introduction to the Christian life that has been distorted by many centuries of human tradition.
Is it coincidence that so much controversy centres on those issues that are foundational; the things that focus on the very beginnings of Christian life, the things that ensure we start our life of discipleship CORRECTLY?
Some people are only interested in being saved from hell, and many of those want to do the minimum required to achieve that goal. But is that what Jesus came to save us from?
Mat 1:21 And she shall bear a son, and you shall call His name JESUS: for He shall save His people from their sins.
The salvation Jesus offers is salvation from our sins. Salvation from hell is a result of being saved from our sins.
Salvation is about THIS life as much as about our eternal destiny. Therefore we need to ensure we are equipped fully to live in our salvation here and now. How can we think we are fully equipped if we ignore and reject what Jesus has provided and has told us to receive? I strongly suspect that those who are ONLY interested in escaping hell and have no interest in God changing their lives NOW, will unfortunately find themselves thrown into the hell they had hoped to avoid.
To many people initiation into Christianity has been reduced to “believing” in Jesus. Yet scripture is very clear that repentance, baptism in water and baptism in the Holy Spirit are ALL parts of the process of salvation. They are not optional extras that we can pick and choose according to our own whims. They are all essential aspects of our entry into Christ, COMMANDED by Jesus Himself. How can we say we believe in Him if we ignore, disobey, or explain away these basic, foundational things?
The dismissal or changing of these vital aspects of Christian life has come about because men’s traditions have replaced the plain and clear teaching of scripture.
REPENTANCE
In scripture, repentance required observable changes in behaviour and the turning away from sin.
In tradition, repentance is a brief, confessed recognition that we are sinners and that we are sorry for our sin.
BAPTISM
In scripture baptism is the full immersion of a repentant believer in water.
In tradition it is the sprinkling of water on an unsuspecting baby.
RECEIVING THE HOLY SPIRIT
In scripture this occurs with observable evidence – most often the evidence reported in scripture is speaking in tongues, but prophetic utterance and “magnifying God” (possibly spontaneous praise) are also mentioned. The important thing to recognise is that SOMETHING happened that convinced those present that the Spirit had been received. The Spirit was not received in a passive and unobserved way. When the Spirit came into someone’s life it was OBVIOUS that He had come.
In tradition, the Spirit is received when we “believe” – with no particular evidence that anything has happened. (Pentecostal tradition is equally erroneous to insist that tongues is the ONLY evidence.)
What does scripture say about believers receiving the Holy Spirit?
1) Jesus told us that the Holy Spirit is given to those who ask (and keep on asking; – the verb is in the Greek present continuous tense).
To ask for the Holy Spirit we need to recognise that 1) we have not yet received Him 2) That we NEED to receive Him and 3) that God is willing and able to give Him to those who continue to ask until they DO receive Him.
2) The first disciples were told to stay in Jerusalem UNTIL they had received the Holy Spirit.
3) Peter told his audience on the day of Pentecost to REPENT AND BE BAPTISED and THEN they shall receive the Holy Spirit. He did not say they should just believe in Jesus and they would receive the Holy Spirit.
4) The believers in Samaria “gave heed” to the gospel Philip preached and responded with “great joy”. The apostles heard that they “had received the Word of God” and travelled to Samaria to pray for the Samaritans so they would “receive the Holy Spirit” – note this was AFTER they had heeded and received the Word of God. They did not receive the Holy Spirit automatically. They received the Holy Spirit after the apostles laid hands on them.
5) When Cornelius and his household were filled with the Holy Spirit, Peter and his companions knew it had happened:
“For they heard them speak with tongues and magnify God.”
Upon this evidence Peter ordered that they be baptised in water.
6) The Ephesians were asked by Paul if they had received the Holy Spirit after they had believed. After determining that they hadn’t, Paul had them baptised, laid hands on them and THEN they received the Holy Spirit – again this was AFTER they had believed and AFTER they had received water baptism in the name of Jesus. How did they know they had finally received the Holy Spirit?
“ And as Paul laid his hands on them, the Holy Spirit came on them, and they spoke with tongues and prophesied.”
Only someone drawn away by tradition could argue against these CLEAR, PLAIN statements to insist that receiving the Spirit happens automatically with no discernable evidence.
Are men and their traditions above God and His Word?
Do men and their traditions decide and determine what is acceptable and needed for a believer to walk in their salvation?
Do men and their traditions determine which parts of God’s word are applicable today and which parts are mere historical records? (A common argument against the examples given in Acts – is that “Acts is merely historical it’s not doctrinal” – who gave anyone the authority to make that distinction?).
Returning to the original question: “Is receiving the Holy Spirit part of Salvation or is it just an added ‘bonus’?”
Consider Jesus Himself. At what point did He start His public ministry? When did He begin to preach, heal and deliver those who were captives?
AFTER His baptism in water and AFTER the Holy Spirit had come upon Him.
If Jesus, who is God Himself, ALSO submitted to water baptism why should we think we don’t need it? If HE needed to receive the Holy Spirit (with confirming, observable signs) why should we think we don’t need to?
Mt 3:13-15 Then Jesus came from Galilee to the Jordan to be baptized by John.
But John tried to deter him, saying, “I need to be baptized by you, and do you come to me?”
Jesus replied, “Let it be so now; it is proper for us to do this to fulfill all righteousness.”
Lk 3:21-22 When all the people were being baptized, Jesus was baptized too. And as he was praying, heaven was opened and the Holy Spirit descended on him in bodily form like a dove.
Note that even Jesus received the Holy Spirit AFTER His baptism and AFTER He had prayed.
And He received the Spirit for THIS purpose:
Lk 4:18-19 “The Spirit of the Lord is on me, because he has anointed me to proclaim good news to the poor. He has sent me to proclaim freedom for the prisoners and recovery of sight for the blind, to set the oppressed free, to proclaim the year of the Lord’s favour.”
He didn’t start His ministry until He had received the anointing of the Holy Spirit. Jesus didn’t conduct His ministry in His own name and power and according to His own authority as God.
If JESUS needed to submit Himself to these things, and if JESUS commanded His disciples to follow His example in these things – who are we to try to change them?
Who are we to try and reason our way out of obedience?
Who are we that we can choose to do things OUR way instead of Gods?
Wednesday, August 24, 2005
ARE YOU McSAVED?
The "Great Commission" is reported in two different ways. Firstly the command to go and preach the gospel, secondly to go and make disciples. Matthew reports it one way, Mark the other.
But really there is no difference between the two. There is no gospel without discipleship. Salvation is only available to those who would become disciples of the Lord.
Preaching, but leaving out the condition of discipleship, is NOT preaching the gospel.
I've read a lot of criticism of the use of a "sinner's prayer" to gain converts. Personally I have nothing against "sinner's prayers" - as long as it is made clear that this is only the starting point; a first step, an initial confession of intent that leads to action.
But all too often the sinner's prayer is merely the result of laziness.
There is more to establishing a potential saint into the body of Christ than a quick "drive through" approach to salvation, like serving up a fast food order.
It's too easy for preachers to justify their ministries by pointing to the number of hands raised, or decision cards filled out in response to an altar call.
But it's not enough to sow the seed and see it fall onto soil away from the path. Leading someone to accept the gospel message is only the first stage. There's still a lot of weeding and rock clearing to do until we can expect to see the seed grow to bear fruit.
The road to salvation is not a free and easy option. There is a cost to be counted beforehand. It is a pearl of great price that is not obtained cheaply. Is this the message being preached? Or is the message one of cheap grace, an easy salvation?
Salvation is NOT the mere crossing over from Unsaved to Saved. Salvation is a continual journey. Paul describes it as a race with a finishing line that needs to be our goal. We must complete what we have started. It's not enough to start.
For too long Christianity has been preached as the way to escape hell. The purpose of Jesus's sacrifice was NOT to save us from hell after death; it's purpose was to save us from sin and its effects in life. NOW!
As Reinhard Bonnke has said, " The gospel is more than a formula for getting to heaven when you die. The gospel offers life not a lifeboat".
Salvation from hell is merely one of the benefits of submitting ourselves to the Lordship of Jesus. But it is not a benefit that can be seen by an unbelieving world. The world needs to see changed lives. It needs to see a difference that shows the reality of a LIVING Jesus.
Relevant references:
Matthew 28: 19
Therefore, go and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit.
Mark 16:15
And then he told them, "Go into all the world and preach the Good News to everyone, everywhere.
16 Anyone who believes and is baptized will be saved. But anyone who refuses to believe will be condemned.
But really there is no difference between the two. There is no gospel without discipleship. Salvation is only available to those who would become disciples of the Lord.
Preaching, but leaving out the condition of discipleship, is NOT preaching the gospel.
I've read a lot of criticism of the use of a "sinner's prayer" to gain converts. Personally I have nothing against "sinner's prayers" - as long as it is made clear that this is only the starting point; a first step, an initial confession of intent that leads to action.
But all too often the sinner's prayer is merely the result of laziness.
There is more to establishing a potential saint into the body of Christ than a quick "drive through" approach to salvation, like serving up a fast food order.
It's too easy for preachers to justify their ministries by pointing to the number of hands raised, or decision cards filled out in response to an altar call.
But it's not enough to sow the seed and see it fall onto soil away from the path. Leading someone to accept the gospel message is only the first stage. There's still a lot of weeding and rock clearing to do until we can expect to see the seed grow to bear fruit.
The road to salvation is not a free and easy option. There is a cost to be counted beforehand. It is a pearl of great price that is not obtained cheaply. Is this the message being preached? Or is the message one of cheap grace, an easy salvation?
Salvation is NOT the mere crossing over from Unsaved to Saved. Salvation is a continual journey. Paul describes it as a race with a finishing line that needs to be our goal. We must complete what we have started. It's not enough to start.
For too long Christianity has been preached as the way to escape hell. The purpose of Jesus's sacrifice was NOT to save us from hell after death; it's purpose was to save us from sin and its effects in life. NOW!
As Reinhard Bonnke has said, " The gospel is more than a formula for getting to heaven when you die. The gospel offers life not a lifeboat".
Salvation from hell is merely one of the benefits of submitting ourselves to the Lordship of Jesus. But it is not a benefit that can be seen by an unbelieving world. The world needs to see changed lives. It needs to see a difference that shows the reality of a LIVING Jesus.
Relevant references:
Matthew 28: 19
Therefore, go and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit.
Mark 16:15
And then he told them, "Go into all the world and preach the Good News to everyone, everywhere.
16 Anyone who believes and is baptized will be saved. But anyone who refuses to believe will be condemned.
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