Monday, October 19, 2009

A Question for My Beloved Calvinists

Another recommended article written by David Servant.

A Question for My Beloved Calvinists
by David Servant

Those who have been reading with me through the New Testament chronologically---by means of our daily emailed devotional that we call HeavenWord Daily---know that I am not a Calvinist. In fact, practically every time we happen upon one of the many passages of Scripture that contradict the doctrines of Calvinism, I point it out. Consequently, I've pointed out scores of scriptures that illustrate where Calvinism deviates from biblical truth.
For readers who may not know what Calvinism is, let me briefly explain. Calvinists believe that, in eternity past, God sovereignly selected some people to be saved, and thus He also sovereignly selected everyone else to be damned. At a pre-determined point during the lifetimes of those who are allegedly pre-selected for salvation, God draws them irresistibly, and they are born again. Calvinists also believe, and understandably so, that Jesus did not die for the sins of everyone. Rather, He only died for those whom He allegedly predestined for salvation. Finally, because Calvinists believe that salvation does not depend on any person's free will and only upon the sovereign decree and action of God, they also believe that no genuinely-saved person could possibly ever become unsaved. Once genuinely saved, people are guaranteed to be saved in the end, which is probably the most attractive element of Calvinism, and which may explain why some people readily embrace it. Once a person is convinced that he has been sovereignly pre-selected for salvation, he knows he has salvation "in the bag."
I would like to offer some food for thought for Calvinists, ending with a challenge, and at the same time fortify non-Calvinists from being persuaded by some common Calvinist arguments.

Full article is here:

Question for Calvinists


Paul G said...

Hi Onesimus;
I am glad that I am not a Calvinist or an Arminianist.

Imagine; if a persons salvation depends on his free will.
Today he is saved, tomorrow he is lost, after tomorrow he is saved again and then lost and saved and lost, WOW! That would be a rocky 'yo-yo salvation'.

Hopefully, if he dies during his time of believing and then he would go to heaven, but if he dies during a time of unbelief he would go direct to hell.

What kind of a god would put the power of salvation into the hands of a man?
And what kind of a little god really wants to save ALL and can't get his act together to do so?

I praise the Lord that I don't believe and trust in a god like that.

My God the Lord Jesus Christ is a lot better than that.
He is mighty and all-powerful and loses not one of His children. He left the ninety nine and gets the one who was lost, so that ALL would be saved.

Yes; that's my JESUS!
Regards Paul

Onesimus said...

I accepted your comment and I leave it as an example of way that the truth of the gospel can be distorted and misrepresented at the hands of human theology.

You show that you have little understanding of God or His gospel.
Despite trying to distance yourself from Calvinism your arguments are identical to those coming from the majority of Calvinists I've come across.

And where does it say that God WANTS to save all?

Scripture says God desires that all be saved, and that He doesn't want any to perish " but everyone to come to repentance".

He has given responsibility to mankind and does not force anyone into salvation. He has given the gift of His Son and desires that all accept that gift FREELY. If God was trying to force everyone into salvation and failed, then He would be a weak God. But that is NOT the way His salvation works.

So your comment "And what kind of a little god really wants to save ALL and can't get his act together to do so?" shows an incredible degree of ignorance of the true gospel.

I would suggest that a God who needed to force His salvation onto an "elect" group to ensure He obtained a people to follow Him would be a totally pathetic god not worthy of our attention - it would therefore not be surprising that such a God NEEDED to limit His salvation to the small group that He was able to control against their natural will.

Also salvation is not lost and gained, lost and gained everytime we sin and repent. But continued wilful sin demonstrates a lack of true repentance and ongoing faith; which is the requirement of an ongoing relationship with God

Epaphras said...

You are truly a pelagian hypocrite.
You exalt man, who ultimately determines his own salvation by his works, and thus determines for himself who will be in heaven. You place yourself in the office of the Holy Spirit, in that salvation is no more His mysterious work in man's heart, but instead a series of mere moral decisions for the wise religionist to follow--no more than choosing the right brand of soap with which to wash the outside of the cup. Your religion is found in the Bible--in the very sin of Adam and Eve, of Cain who sought to offer his own sacrifice by works, of all at the tower of Babel...and you exhort others to follow your sinful ways, luring them by the religion of human nature which makes boast of self will. You have gone far to harden your heart to the Truth. May God grant you repentance and a new heart.

Onesimus said...

The above is the first of 8 ill-informed Calvinist rants by "Epaphras".

It is yet another example of the delusion caused by man's theology. A delusion that will blind someone to the truth of God's glorious gospel.

Of course the rest have been deleted. I've given more than enough space and time to such rants. I have given more than enough space and time to the quotes from Calvinist writers are are regularly trotted out to support their damnable doctrines.

I have given more than enough space and time to the misuse and abuse of scripture - always the same proof texts quoted out of context - used to "prove" the "truth" of the Calvinist heresy.

Get to know the one true God and get to know His word and His gospel. Repent of the vanity of man's theology and receive the revelation God has given of Himself through the WHOLE of His scriptures.

Abandon the demonic god of your own creation. Destroy your golden calf and seek the mercy of the TRUE God who gave His Son as a ransom for ALL so that whoever goes on believing in him will have everlasting life.

Onesimus said...

Just a reminder that I will use the moderation option to delete all Calvinist ranting from the comments section. It doesn't matter how many different names you try to post them under (darren I suspect).
No room will be given here for your demonic maligning of God's character or your attempts to perevert His gospel.

I pray that you will find the deliverance you require and you can be freed from the demonic influence of your "theology".

I no longer bother to read any more of your ranting than is needed to recognise the Calvinist stench being emitted.

Onesimus said...

To the multi-named Calvinist.

If your most recent pseudonym of “Concerned Evangelical” is true, then you obviously posses a characteristic that your Calvinist god lacks. Have you ever wondered why YOU should have more concern about someone’s spiritual well-being than your god does?

Why should you concern yourself with me if your god has already determined my damnation?

Why not leave it all in your god’s hands – considering his decision about our eternal destinies was made before creation and therefore was fixed by his own sovereign choice before any man existed?

Again I have deleted your ill-informed (though possibly well intentioned) Calvinist rant.

May you see the truth: that JESUS is the elect and we can become part of the elect ONLY through Him and in Him. No one has been predestined to become part of the elect, and only pride would convince someone that he had been unconditionally elected by God out of the billions who have populated this earth.

God desires that ALL come to repentance and be saved, so He gave Jesus as a ransom for ALL. There’s no room given for the perverse doctrines of “unconditional election” and “limited atonement” in the TRUE gospel of Jesus Christ.

Onesimus said...

Hi Anonymous,
You provided a link for a video with the title "How to defeat Calvinism".
Unfortunately I'm not able to see the video at this time.

I hope you understand that I can not allow the link to be posted until I've had the chance to view it for myself.


concerned evangelical said...

In your rant, you do exactly what you deride others for doing. And you chide others for their exegesis while yet yours never draws any to the glory of the Father alone, through Christ alone, by the Holy Spirit alone, but to the "decisions" and false glory of man. You are a hypocrite and a false teacher.

What do you make of this from Ephesians 2: "you were dead in the trespasses and sins in which you once walked...and were by nature children of wrath, like the rest of mankind." ALL of mankind, including YOU, were spiritually dead at birth, by our very nature we were children of wrath, and would continue in that state. There is no other way to interpret the teachings in Ephesians. You mock and deride what you pridefully and ignorantly cannot acknowledge--God is sovereign; to Him alone belongs salvation. You did not give spiritual birth to yourself. Human beings as sons and daughters of Adam enter the world spiritually dead. They have no inclination or responsiveness toward God and no ability to please God. Who are "the sons of disobedience"? They belong to the family of those who rebel against the holy and true God. ALL of us! To be sons and daughters of Adam is to be born into a fallen state and subject to God's condemnation as children of wrath. To escape this hopeless imprisonment requires nothing short of a new birth or a new creation. “God helps those who help themselves” is not from the Bible but from the ancient Greeks. As Paul emphasizes in this section, the truth is the exact opposite: God helps the helpless! Even more, he helps his enemies who have transgressed his holy law. You could make all kinds of self-centered decisions to find "your best life now" or a "victorious life" (as you elsewhere stated), but you could not as a spiritually dead person "make a decision for Jesus".

“But God!” God's mercy on his helpless enemies flows from his own loving heart, not from anything they have done to deserve it. Since Christians were dead, they first had to be made alive before they could believe (and God did that together with Christ). This is why salvation is by grace alone.

You make little of the Gospel,
and the miracle of regeneration, for you have no Spirit-wrought understanding of the desperately fallen nature of man.

concerned evangelical said...

I do not mind that you do not show my comments--your prerogative.

You can only and always fall back on your beloved synergistically-twisted verses, but can never tackle the deeper issues involved.
Your soteriolgy is an inch deep and a mile wide, and results in the pagan idea that you did something to constrain God to act in your favor. Do you ascend, or did He descend?

Soteriology is the area where Christianity is the most different from the cults and other world religions. Understanding Biblical Soteriology will help us to know why salvation is by grace alone (Ephesians 2:8-9), through faith alone, in Jesus Christ alone. No other religion bases salvation on faith alone. Soteriology helps us to see why.
If we were responsible to save ourselves and keep ourselves saved, we would fail. Thank God that is not the case!

Read Titus 3:5-7. Paul explains how his exhortations to godly living (3:1–2) are based on the gospel. This gospel statement is presented in a traditional
“conversion” formula—“formerly . . . but now”—highlighting the ethical and practical change effected by grace.
The transformation described in vv. 3–7 (formerly . . . but now) is NOT based on human effort. “We . . . were once enslaved” (v. 3) but HE saved us. God must act before salvation occurs. Salvation comes NOT because of works but by the washing of regeneration and renewal of the Holy Spirit. Some have understood this as saying that baptism (“the washing”) causes salvation. However, in this context human deeds are CLEARLY downplayed (“not because of works”) and the emphasis is on divine action and initiative (“He saved us”). The “washing” described here is the spiritual cleansing, which is outwardly symbolized in baptism. See John 3:5--This discussion of the need for spiritual rebirth further develops the earlier reference to the “children of God” who are “born of God” (1:12–13; cf. 8:39–58; 11:51–52). The phrase born of water and the Spirit in 3:5 refers to spiritual birth, which cleanses from sin and brings spiritual transformation and renewal. Water here does not refer to the water of physical birth, nor is it likely that it refers to baptism. The background is probably Ezek. 36:25–27, where God promises, “I will sprinkle clean water on you, and you shall be clean. . . . And I will give you a new heart. . . . And I will put my Spirit within you.”; 1 Cor. 6:11--This refers to the spiritual cleansing from the guilt and dominating power of sin that occurs at regeneration and that is symbolized in the “washing” of baptism (Acts 22:16); 1 Pet. 3:21--
A comparison is drawn between salvation in the ark and baptism. In both instances, believers are saved through the waters of judgment, since baptism portrays salvation through judgment. The mere mechanical act of baptism does not save, for Peter explicitly says, “not as a removal of dirt from the body,” meaning that the passing of water over the body does not cleanse anyone. Baptism saves you because it represents inward faith, as evidenced by one's appeal to God for the forgiveness of one's sins (for a good conscience). Furthermore, baptism “saves” only insofar as it is grounded in the death and resurrection of Jesus Christ. Baptism is a visual representation of the fact that Christians are clothed with Christ (cf. Gal. 3:27), and in union with Christ they share his victory over sin. Water baptism is an outward sign of the inward reality of regeneration, which is the result of the work of the Holy Spirit (cf. John 3:5, 8; Titus 3:5), and which may be received only by grace through faith (see Eph. 2:8).

But you knew all that (though in unrighteousness you may suppress the truth of monergistic salvation).
Nevertheless, your comments back, along with many of your misguided and man-centered posts, have been fuel for many discussions elsewhere.

concerned evangelical said...

Wow. Went and checked out that Servant that you go on and on about. So that is where you get it.
You just mouth his words. You really should try to understand monergism on your own, not taking the comically misguided words of another as your mark.

concerned evangelical said...

The awareness of grace that pervades the first three chapters of Ephesians is heightened by Paul’s contrasting emphasis on sin and God’s judgment upon it. Every human being stands guilty and condemned before the eternal judgment of God, who cannot tolerate sin. This concept seems troublingly harsh to modern ways of thinking; behind it stands a much stronger view of human sin and of the utter holiness of God than most Westerners today are used to. (Is this your issue?)

Look at John 1. Verse 10: "He came into the very world he created, but the world didn’t recognize him." The world cannot recognize the true light even when it encounters its Creator. The world lives in rebellion, loving darkness more than light. Now see vv 12-13: "But to all who believed him and accepted him, he gave the right to become children of God.
They are reborn—not with a physical birth resulting from human passion or plan, but a birth that comes from God." Only through divine renewal can people follow the light and enter God’s family (3:1-17). Individuals must believe in Christ to become children of God (12:35-36). People can escape the darkness only by God’s grace.

Now before your carnally twisted synergistic tendencies get you in a bunch, let us go to Romans 8:29--"For God knew his people in advance, and he chose them to become like his Son, so that his Son would be the firstborn among many brothers and sisters."
"Knew": proginōskō (4267), prognōsis (4268), prooraō (4308): foreknow, foresee. The verb proginōskō means to know or choose something in advance. The noun prognōsis refers to the advanced knowledge itself. The verb prooraō has a similar meaning, referring to seeing something in advance without the implication of choice
(Acts 2:23, 25, 31; Rom 11:2; Gal 3:8; 1 Pet 1:2, 20). "Chose": proorizō (4309): predestine. This verb means deciding on something beforehand. In the NT, it refers to God’s making plans, decisions, and choices in a prior time.

Now, would a true believer hate and suppress these God-glorifying truths? Why would he suppose that they are a "demonic maligning of God's character"? One of the most biblically ignorant comments uttered here: "I would suggest that a God who needed to force His salvation onto an 'elect' group to ensure He obtained a people to follow Him would be a totally pathetic god not worthy of our attention - it would therefore not be surprising that such a God NEEDED to limit His salvation to the small group that He was able to control against their natural will."

“For many are called, but few are chosen.” While many people are called—they hear the invitation to the Kingdom—few are actually chosen by God and respond in faithful obedience to Jesus.

"And having chosen them, he called them to come to him. And having called them, he gave them right standing with himself. And having given them right standing, he gave them his glory."

"And he will send out his angels to gather his chosen ones from all over the world—from the farthest ends of the earth and heaven."

"Together they will go to war against the Lamb, but the Lamb will defeat them because he is Lord of all lords and King of all kings. And his called and chosen and faithful ones will be with him.”

"Force"? You really don't get it.

Onesimus said...

I decided to post the multi-pseudonymed commentator’s ranting so that by his own words he will be judged.
Under this particular incarnation he is the “concerned evangelical”, clearly suggesting that he has more concern about my doctrine and my spiritual well-being than the god he worships.
CE’s god condemned billions to an eternity in hell before any one of them had been created. Not because of any sin – (because they did not yet exist to be guilty of sin) – but merely because his Calvinist god decided he wanted to burn them in hell. Clearly such a god shows NO concern for those who he unconditionally predestined for eternal torture.

CE sees himself as one of those lucky “elect” who avoided god’s lottery of damnation. He smugly considered that out of the billions of created men that his god personally chose HIM for salvation and that Jesus died for HIM and a minority of others but did not die for the majority of the human race.

Compare CE’s false Calvinist gospel with the true GOSPEL OF Jesus Christ, in which God demonstrated His love for the world by giving His Son, so that whoever believes in Him will have eternal life. Compare CE’s false Calvinist god, with the one TRUE God who desires for ALL to come to repentance and for ALL to be saved, and therefore showed His mercy to ALL by giving His Son as a ransom for ALL.

CE believes that no one can come to faith, no one can repent until God personally regenerates those that He has specifically chosen and only THOSE regenerated people can then believe and repent. In fact they can do nothing BUT believe and repent because God’s grace can not be resisted.

Furthermore the so called “concerned evangelical” said:

“Wow. Went and checked out that Servant that you go on and on about. So that is where you get it.
You just mouth his words. You really should try to understand monergism on your own, not taking the comically misguided words of another as your mark.”


Interesting that you should spend so much time commenting on this thread (more than 10 of his comments were deleted) without actually reading the article that made up the bulk of this thread. But then again you are clearly not interested in anything but promoting knowledge of your own elite status as one of your god’s “elect”, gloating in front of those whom your false god has supposedly predestined to hell.

And to answer your accusation, I did not “get it” from David Servant. Contrary to some theological practices I (and David Servant) actually turn to scripture IN CONTEXT and rely upon the Holy Spirit for revelation instead of parroting the teachings and proof texts learned from teachers of theology. Any similarity in beliefs that I and David Servant hold are due to their common source in God’s revelation through His word and by His Spirit.