The article linked below would be worthwhile just for the title alone. But don’t stop there, read the whole lot!
GOD IN HANDS OF ANGRY CALVINISTS
This part at the beginning immediately stood out:
“According to John Piper, typically, certain types of people are prone to accepting Calvinism. "What types of people are these?" you ask. These, according to Piper, are the intellectual types…”
After reading some of the Calvinist arguments I’ve seen lately, that statement does not surprise me. The arguments have paid little regard for scripture but have been centred on “reasoning” the “truth”. For example, if God really wanted all to be saved, then all WOULD be saved. All are not saved, therefore the atonement is limited. This application of reason results in an outcome that is totally contrary to clear scriptural statements.
I have also found that the Calvinist obsession with election and predestination is based on particular interpretations being projected into various texts. However a clear leap in logic needs to be taken when references to predestination and election are assumed to be referring to “unconditionally elected for salvation”.
That leap of logic is not warranted, and in reality it leads to an entirely false conclusion that contradicts many CLEAR and CATEGORICAL scriptural statements.
(See 1 Corinthians 1: 17-29 regarding man’s wisdom and intellect.)
13 comments:
It is hard to convince people using scripture when they rely on their own philosophy over verses like 1 John 2:2.
So much of scripture clearly contradicts Calvinist doctrine and yet those doctrines are defended at any cost.
Of course the first "cost" is the need to ignore, throw out or completely twist the meaning of those parts of scripture that contradict their theology.
Mostly they are ignored and the same old verses are trotted out time and again.
Not long ago I came across an observation by someone called Andrew Lang. He accused someone of using statisitcs in the same way that a drunk uses a lamp-post: for support rather than for illumination.
I immediately saw that the same could be said of the Calvinist use of proof texts.
bossmanham said...
It is hard to convince people using scripture when they rely on their own philosophy over verses like 1 John 2:2.
1:04 PM
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It is clear that Calvinist value their philosophy above scripture when they ignore very clear scriptural statements about God’s desire for ALL to be saved, while going to great lengths to insist that references to election and predestination are referring to an “unconditional election” for salvation.
God’s desires for ALL to be saved could not be stated more clearly; and yet Calvinists prefer to support THEIR theology by using a very tenuous inference that their doctrine projects upon a few verses.
It is clear that bible references to predestination and election are NOT promoting unconditional election, limited atonement, or any other parts of their TULIP.
It's interesting the faulty theology you can run into when you put too much emphasis on philosophy. I've been reading Roger Olson's The Story of Christian Theology and have found that Arius' heresy stemmed from him trying to reconcile a too Greek view of God with Christianity. That led him to deny the diety of Christ. Luckily Calvinists don't do that, but it's just an example of what happens when scripture takes a back seat to philosophy.
It's a coherent logical system..But that doesn't make it a biblically correct one.
There are many verses that fall under the perpescuity of scripture, like 1 John 2:2.
There is almost an esotericism within that context.
Onesimus it's good to see an older arminian blogging!
May God use you mightily!
Um, sorry about that..an older brother in the Lord, I don't want presume all non-calvinist to be arminian. I do apologize..With every good wish.
Thank your for your encouraging comments Donald.
But just a small correction. I am not an Arminian. Neither am I a Pelagian, Semi-Pelagian or a Finneyite (I've been called all of those by the Calvinists who have opposed my views.)
I have a great deal of respect for Arminian beliefs and mostly agree with them. However I prefer not to identify myself with a man, no matter how useful their teachings may be.
If you look through some of the other articles on my blog you will get a clearer idea of where I'm coming from.
Aftet saying that I hope I don't come across as being negative towards those who DO identify themselves as Arminians. Over past months I've met quite a few very gracious and helpful Arminian believers and I appreciate the opportunity I've had to learn from them.
Hello Onesimus,
"But just a small correction. I am not an Arminian. Neither am I a Pelagian, Semi-Pelagian or a Finneyite (I've been called all of those by the Calvinists who have opposed my views.)"
In other words you are a **biblicist** (i.e., someone who wants to believe and teach whatever the bible properly interpreted reveals regardless of how others [including professing Christians] treat you). I think you are doing a good job of this and eschewing useless lablels to concentrate upon faithfully proclaiming God's Word and truth. Keep up the good work.
"I have a great deal of respect for Arminian beliefs and mostly agree with them. However I prefer not to identify myself with a man, no matter how useful their teachings may be."
Well I don't identify with Arminius (or any man for that matter) and yet my beliefs are considered Arminian and I don't mind being labelled Arminian cause I'm really a biblicist at heart, and really not that concerned with how people label me. I much rather get the interpretatioin of scripture right, and let people pigeonhole me the way they want. My satisfaction comes from knowing and treasuring the Word of God and having the privelege to often preach and teach the bible. I am so thankful that I have the freedom to study and proclaim the bible freely without having to worry about some police force barging in and taking away my books and imprisoning me. In some ways I have it too easy as I live in the United States which one friend calls the "Disneyland of Christianity" because we have it so easy compared with other believers in the world. It is a great privelege to be able to study the Word for yourself without being coerced in your beliefs by some unauthorized ecclesiastical authority, some man made tradition or theology, or some other extra-biblical authority that wants to have you in bondage to its teachings.
"If you look through some of the other articles on my blog you will get a clearer idea of where I'm coming from."
Again sure looks like you are a biblicist to me.
"Aftet saying that I hope I don't come across as being negative towards those who DO identify themselves as Arminians. Over past months I've met quite a few very gracious and helpful Arminian believers and I appreciate the opportunity I've had to learn from them."
You've learned from "Arminians", I can't believe it! :-) And here I thought you were a biblicist! :-)
Robert
Robert said:
"You've learned from "Arminians", I can't believe it! :-) And here I thought you were a biblicist! :-)"
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I said I learned from "Arminians", but I did not say I agreed with the things I learned ;-)
On a serious note, perhaps the most significant thing I've appreciated from Arminian bloggers is to find that I'm not the only one to be concerned about the strange doctrines of Calvinism.
Most of the people I'd been in contact with in recent years were either Calvinists themselves or people with little concern about sound doctrine (ie extreme charismanics).
Others were merely ignorant of what Calvinism actually promoted (I was one of these until a few years ago)and couldn't see what I was concerned about.
I am a big believer in searching the scriptures for ourselves and trusting the Holy Spirit to give understanding instead of turning to man first.
I have found this to be much more beneficial than putting all of my trust in men's teachings.
However, before the usual howls of protest start; I ALWAYS expect to receive confirmation or correction of the things I've learned from the scriptures; and that confirmation/correction ALWAYS comes from interaction with other believers. So I am NOT on a "me and the bible only" trip as many have accused.
I wrote all of that because a lot of the confirmation I've received for things I've learned recently has come through interaction with "Arminian" bloggers.
If only they could drop that "Arminian" tag and describe themselves solely as disciples of Jesus...
Onesimus,
I don't mind your position, I still would consider you a kindred spirit in Christ based on your views of calvinism. And I love it.
I won't repeat what Robert said, regarding being labeled an arminian.
But I would definitely agree with his articulation of the views I hold a high view of scripture and I would say in a world of differing theologies I consider arminianism as the biblical alternative. (Note to Robert, where's your blog at?)
Still it's good to see older brethren blogging.
Hello Onesimus,
“I said I learned from "Arminians", but I did not say I agreed with the things I learned ;-)”
Well that must have been other Arminians not me! ;-)
“On a serious note, perhaps the most significant thing I've appreciated from Arminian bloggers is to find that I'm not the only one to be concerned about the strange doctrines of Calvinism.”
There are many things about calvinism that show it to be false, but one of them for me, is that it is seen to be false across the board of Christian traditions (if you look at most Protestants, Catholics, Eastern Orthodox and Independents they all decisively reject calvinism and its spurious teachings). If you look at Church history, pre-Augustine no one taught or espoused Calvinism (and Augustine himself was a real mixed bag holding all sorts of false beliefs and contributing some false ideas to the church). And after Augustine up until the Reformers few held calvinistic beliefs. Then the Reformers systematized these calvinistic beliefs. After the Reformers if you look at most believers they have continued to reject calvinism. It really is a small, small minority position looked at within Church history as a whole.
“Most of the people I'd been in contact with in recent years were either Calvinists themselves or people with little concern about sound doctrine (ie extreme charismanics).
Others were merely ignorant of what Calvinism actually promoted (I was one of these until a few years ago) and couldn't see what I was concerned about.”
Evidently you have come up to speed and researched the topic more fully so that you now know what the bible says versus what the calvinistic system says. This is obvious in your postings.
“I am a big believer in searching the scriptures for ourselves and trusting the Holy Spirit to give understanding instead of turning to man first.”
Yes that is a tremendous privilege and right of every believer.
“I have found this to be much more beneficial than putting all of my trust in men's teachings.
However, before the usual howls of protest start; I ALWAYS expect to receive confirmation or correction of the things I've learned from the scriptures; and that confirmation/correction ALWAYS comes from interaction with other believers. So I am NOT on a "me and the bible only" trip as many have accused.”
That is both a very wise and a biblical approach. If the same Holy Spirit is in other believers then they should tend to confirm the truth that you are finding in God’s Word. And this again evidences the falsity of calvinism as so many bible believing Christians see that it is false and explicitly contradicts what the bible presents (some are utterly shocked for example upon seeing how calvinists reinterpret and negate a clear bible passage such as John 3:16).
“I wrote all of that because a lot of the confirmation I've received for things I've learned recently has come through interaction with "Arminian" bloggers.”
That is good but as you know, the test is always the scripture as Arminians like anyone else can be wrong and are not infallible.
“If only they could drop that "Arminian" tag and describe themselves solely as disciples of Jesus...”
Believe it or not, when doing ministry in the real world I rarely describe myself as “Arminian”. For example when I preach to a typical prison congregation of say five hundred people, I don’t say anything about being “Arminian” or holding to “Arminian beliefs”, because it is not about me, it is about them and God's Word. I just teach and preach the Word and then God does amazing things way beyond my capability and understanding. Of course someone analyzing what I say and trying to put a label on it will conclude that I hold Arminian beliefs. But I am not up there to talk about Arminius, or Arminianism, or “TULIP” but only to unleash the Word.
Robert
Hello Donald,
"But I would definitely agree with his articulation of the views I hold a high view of scripture and I would say in a world of differing theologies I consider arminianism as the biblical alternative. (Note to Robert, where's your blog at?)"
I am not a computer whiz like some of you. I appreciate the indirect complement, that what I say is worth posting. But I will let you more computer savvy types have your own blogs. Besides, with the excellent blogs which we can comment at, why clog up the blogsesphere with another one? :-)
Donald are you familiar with the Society of Evangelical Arminians? I believe you might appreciate being part of that group, let me know if you are interested.
Robert
Robert,
I'm familiar with the Society Of Evangelical Arminians. And I've actually joined their forum. Visit the website often.
Hey Robert here's something a little more direct, I like what you said about Arminianism.
No we all don't need to be bloggers.
You have a grasp on some excellent views. And we all don't have to blog. You're completely right with that thought.
I don't blog as frequently myself, and there are some many good ones out there, I spend more time reading and gathering.
I've only been an arminian since Feb this year. But I'm learning so much.
Click on my name and email me if you would to dialogue.
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