Does God judge nations and cities through sending disaster as was recently [falsely] predicted for Christchurch?
In scripture he tended to leave nations alone UNLESS they mistreated Israel*. I see the same thing indicated in end time prophecy. It is mistreatment of His people (church and Israel) that brings about His end time outpouring of wrath.
Romans 1 and 2 give a graphic view of how God judges sin in the present day. He gives people over to their sin so they "stor[e] up wrath ...for the day of God's wrath, when his righteous judgement will be revealed."
That is a very sobering passage of scripture as well as enlightening regarding the nature of God's judgement today (more subtle than blasting cities).
Those He loves He chastens - how tragic for those He ceases chastening and hands over to the "sinful desires of their heart". THAT is the most terrible judgement we could receive prior to that day of His wrath.
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* Israel has a unique position, being the only nation with whom God made a covenant with promises of blessing for obedience and curses for disobedience.
Blessing and cursing of other nations was stated as being conditional upon their treatment of the nation God promised from among Abraham's descendants. (Gen 12)
Showing posts with label Judgement. Show all posts
Showing posts with label Judgement. Show all posts
Friday, October 14, 2011
Friday, September 30, 2011
Christchurch "Prophecy" the aftermath.
The deadline for the predicted Christchurch disaster has passed without the promised destruction.
Reports from Christchurch reveal that many stayed away from work and left the city for the day. Many school students didn’t attend class. Many were in fear of what could happen on the day.
Remember, this is a city that suffered terrible destruction and loss of life at the beginning of the year; where constant aftershocks are a reminder of what happened. Most citizens suffered personal loss or at least know someone close who did.
What has happened since the failure of the “prophesied” destruction on the 28th?
1) Some have taken the predicted route and claim credit for their intercession averting the disaster.
2) Others continue as if the failure presents no real problem and they stick with their view that Christchurch is due for another disastrous “shaking”, that only the timing was wrong
3) Some (praise God) have confessed to their error and are seeking God, genuinely repentant for their involvement.
One factor that clearly helped the Christchurch prediction to be circulated as “prophecy” was the preconceived idea that God intended to judge Christchurch, or at least the “disobedient church” in Christchurch.
Were these expectations being voiced PRIOR to the two major quakes, the second of which led to massive loss of life? Or were these “prophetic” voices informed BY the two quakes – Prophetic “insight” AFTER the fact? Is this why so many latched onto the false 28 September prediction? They saw it as a validation of their own alleged prophetic insight?
I know of some who publicised the 28th prediction but expressed doubts about the dating; accepting the rest of the "word" because of a conviction that God WILL “shake Christchurch” again – not as a judgement on the city but as a judgement on the church!
Is that the way God acts? To cause death and massive destruction among unbelievers to punish disobedient believers?
Do we kick the dog to punish the cat that has torn the curtains? Maybe we do – but would a God of justice do that?
Reports from Christchurch reveal that many stayed away from work and left the city for the day. Many school students didn’t attend class. Many were in fear of what could happen on the day.
Remember, this is a city that suffered terrible destruction and loss of life at the beginning of the year; where constant aftershocks are a reminder of what happened. Most citizens suffered personal loss or at least know someone close who did.
What has happened since the failure of the “prophesied” destruction on the 28th?
1) Some have taken the predicted route and claim credit for their intercession averting the disaster.
2) Others continue as if the failure presents no real problem and they stick with their view that Christchurch is due for another disastrous “shaking”, that only the timing was wrong
3) Some (praise God) have confessed to their error and are seeking God, genuinely repentant for their involvement.
One factor that clearly helped the Christchurch prediction to be circulated as “prophecy” was the preconceived idea that God intended to judge Christchurch, or at least the “disobedient church” in Christchurch.
Were these expectations being voiced PRIOR to the two major quakes, the second of which led to massive loss of life? Or were these “prophetic” voices informed BY the two quakes – Prophetic “insight” AFTER the fact? Is this why so many latched onto the false 28 September prediction? They saw it as a validation of their own alleged prophetic insight?
I know of some who publicised the 28th prediction but expressed doubts about the dating; accepting the rest of the "word" because of a conviction that God WILL “shake Christchurch” again – not as a judgement on the city but as a judgement on the church!
Is that the way God acts? To cause death and massive destruction among unbelievers to punish disobedient believers?
Do we kick the dog to punish the cat that has torn the curtains? Maybe we do – but would a God of justice do that?
Wednesday, September 28, 2011
Sept 28 Christchurch Prophecy
One of the most maligned spiritual gifts is prophecy. It is either dismissed as being obsolete or it is approached so casually that it is not surprising many people have convinced themselves that it is obsolete.
An example of how little REAL respect is given to prophecy is being demonstrated as I write. A prediction has been made of yet another catastrophe in Christchurch New Zealand. That city seems to draw attention from a sector of the “church” which delights in the idea of God pouring out His wrath on other people. Christchurch seems to be a favourite target for a few reasons. It has already been the victim of disaster and its name makes it a handy metaphor for those critical of the state of the church. Put the two together and we have God showing His displeasure with Christ’s church.
The current prediction has been very specific – giving today as the day when terrible things will happen again to the city. It has had a polarising effect within the Christian community. Some reject it out of hand because they reject the validity of all present day prophecy. Others have embraced it without question, appearing to take delight in the idea of God’s judgement being demonstrated against others.
I take a different view. I am totally accepting of the validity of prophecy today but I strongly reject this particular prediction. I find nothing in it to indicate it is a true prophetic word.
Yesterday, 27th September, I resigned from my role as the moderator of a Christian forum because of the way this prediction was being addressed. As a result I have been asked not to contribute to that forum for three months.
It is clear that the forum owner accepts the validity of the prophecy in part. The only aspect that troubles him is the dating of the predicted disaster. A few other members have been more supportive, accepting all of it as a true message from God. They expect disaster to strike Christchurch today. Maybe even more disturbing than this expectation is the impression that they won’t even have their certainty shaken when the predicted event fails to happen. They will merely latch onto the next “word of prophecy” and run with that one until it also fails.
These people are more than willing to see Christchurch take the brunt of God’s wrath because of the state of the church (as they see it) and yet they are blind to the fact that THEY are no less disobedient, wilful and misled. They are no less guilty of error and stubbornness –all demonstrated by their refusal to test the “prophecy” according to God given, scriptural principals.
Prophecy is something that we can not afford to take lightly. We can not be casual with it. In the Old Testament false prophets were given no leeway. According to God’s instructions, they got it right – or they lost their lives.
Today false prophets are not faced with stoning. Some may see this as God’s mercy at work. I see it slightly differently. Maybe the Old Testament way was more merciful – it made people more aware of the seriousness of saying “God said” when God had said nothing of the kind. Maybe the freedom for “prophets” to speak without immediate consequences is itself a judgement on the church, separating the wheat from the chaff, separating those with a love and desire for the the truth from those who prefer baseless sensation.
There are still several more hours of the 28th (NZ time) to go. As yet I’ve heard no news of destruction in Christchurch. I’ll stick my neck out a little right now and say the rest of the day will pass with a similar absence of news, and then tomorrow the excuses, self-justification and back tracking will begin: anything to avoid accountability for the lies that have been promoted and supported.
Friday, May 07, 2010
Sin, Judgement and National Idolatry
Today, on another blog I came across an article with the title “Why do So Many Bad Things Keep Happening to the U.S?” Comments on the blog then go into the reasons why this is the case – mostly suggesting it is due to America’s disobedience to God.
I wasn’t sure of how to respond to the question in a polite way. Is the writer ignorant of the rest of the world? When did a single “bad thing” in America result in the loss of tens of thousands, or even hundreds of thousand of lives as has often happened elsewhere?
Compared with many areas of the world America has barely suffered in any way. Nothing worse is happening in America than anywhere else.if anything America is getting off lightly compared to most of the world.
One of the common mistakes made when people raise issues like this it that they confuse America with Israel and apply what God said to Israel to the USA. America is not God’s chosen nation and the blessings/cursings applicable to Israel were NOT directed towards America.To see God’s word to America, or any other nation, we need search the scriptures for God’s word to the nations.
When scripture mentions “the nations” then America is included as ONE of those nations.
If people are concerned about America’s sinfulness before God, I suggest that one of the worst sins of the American people is NATIONAL IDOLATRY.
I wasn’t sure of how to respond to the question in a polite way. Is the writer ignorant of the rest of the world? When did a single “bad thing” in America result in the loss of tens of thousands, or even hundreds of thousand of lives as has often happened elsewhere?
Compared with many areas of the world America has barely suffered in any way. Nothing worse is happening in America than anywhere else.if anything America is getting off lightly compared to most of the world.
One of the common mistakes made when people raise issues like this it that they confuse America with Israel and apply what God said to Israel to the USA. America is not God’s chosen nation and the blessings/cursings applicable to Israel were NOT directed towards America.To see God’s word to America, or any other nation, we need search the scriptures for God’s word to the nations.
When scripture mentions “the nations” then America is included as ONE of those nations.
If people are concerned about America’s sinfulness before God, I suggest that one of the worst sins of the American people is NATIONAL IDOLATRY.
Wednesday, September 09, 2009
Hell: Reason and Necessity.
The thought of God condemning people to hell seems to be a problem for many people. The problem is perhaps increased if we listen to some who say that God does not desire to throw any of mankind into hell but will do so anyway. So what is the situation regarding hell and what were God’s alternatives? Why does there need to be a “hell” and why does anyone need to be condemned to it?
Maybe we can look at some differing scenarios:
1) God allows a moral free-for-all in which no one is held accountable for anything. Therefore no need for hell. (But this earth would be as bad as hell anyway with no moral restraints).
2) God denies mankind any freedom of choice at all. He programmes everyone to be (and to remain) morally perfect. In other words he ends up with a puppet race controlled entirely by Himself. (But there can't be much joy in a family made up of dolls that say "I love you daddy" every time you press the right button). In such a scenario there would be no need for any of mankind to be thrown in hell.
3) Repeat the "denial of choice" scenario of alternative 2, but this time God actually WANTS to throw the majority of mankind into hell. He selects a chosen few (“the elect”) whom He has predestined to save, but He predestines the rest to burn for eternity as a demonstration of His justice. This will bring Him great glory.
Of course those who are thrown in hell are treated in this way because they are depraved sinners and not because God brought them into existence with a depraved and sinful nature: even though they had no choice about that nature and no opportunity to be free from it – that nature being a result of God’s sovereign choice. [Oh the wonders of Calvinism!]
4) God creates mankind with the ability to choose, so that He can obtain a people who will willingly follow Him. This option cuts both ways. The freedom to choose obedience also creates the freedom to rebel.
Such a scenario seems fine in theory, but what if we can’t live up to the standard God expects? According to the bible God has provided for that reality by putting everyone on a level playing field where no one is more advantaged/disadvantaged than anyone else. Romans 11 states that ALL were bound over to disobedience so that He may have mercy on ALL. In this scenario NO ONE is able to fulfil God’s expectations according to our own efforts, but He has provided a way for us to be acceptable through relying on His mercy. This is the message of the gospel of Jesus Christ through which He has made it possible for the worst of men to turn towards God and be changed from a sinner to a saint.
Not only does God give us the choice of turning towards Him, He also adds a big incentive to do so. To the obedient He promises an eventual new creation which will NOT have the potential for evil; from which all rebellion will be barred. It will be populated by only those who have already chosen His (the creator's) way in this current creation.
However, what becomes of those who reject God and His promise?
Jesus describes their destiny in the terms of a garbage dump; using Gehenna, Jerusalem's dump as an illustration.
Like anything that does not fulfil its intended purpose, those who continue in rebellion against God' purpose for them will be thrown out as garbage.
This is NOT done arbitrarily. We ALL have the choice to recognise and respond to our creator in the way that He desires. But most prefer to go their own way and kick against any idea of there being a greater authority to whom they are accountable. Such is the arrogance of mankind. And hell is the ultimate result of ignoring personal accountability in a moral universe created by a Holy, Just and Righteous God
Maybe we can look at some differing scenarios:
1) God allows a moral free-for-all in which no one is held accountable for anything. Therefore no need for hell. (But this earth would be as bad as hell anyway with no moral restraints).
2) God denies mankind any freedom of choice at all. He programmes everyone to be (and to remain) morally perfect. In other words he ends up with a puppet race controlled entirely by Himself. (But there can't be much joy in a family made up of dolls that say "I love you daddy" every time you press the right button). In such a scenario there would be no need for any of mankind to be thrown in hell.
3) Repeat the "denial of choice" scenario of alternative 2, but this time God actually WANTS to throw the majority of mankind into hell. He selects a chosen few (“the elect”) whom He has predestined to save, but He predestines the rest to burn for eternity as a demonstration of His justice. This will bring Him great glory.
Of course those who are thrown in hell are treated in this way because they are depraved sinners and not because God brought them into existence with a depraved and sinful nature: even though they had no choice about that nature and no opportunity to be free from it – that nature being a result of God’s sovereign choice. [Oh the wonders of Calvinism!]
4) God creates mankind with the ability to choose, so that He can obtain a people who will willingly follow Him. This option cuts both ways. The freedom to choose obedience also creates the freedom to rebel.
Such a scenario seems fine in theory, but what if we can’t live up to the standard God expects? According to the bible God has provided for that reality by putting everyone on a level playing field where no one is more advantaged/disadvantaged than anyone else. Romans 11 states that ALL were bound over to disobedience so that He may have mercy on ALL. In this scenario NO ONE is able to fulfil God’s expectations according to our own efforts, but He has provided a way for us to be acceptable through relying on His mercy. This is the message of the gospel of Jesus Christ through which He has made it possible for the worst of men to turn towards God and be changed from a sinner to a saint.
Not only does God give us the choice of turning towards Him, He also adds a big incentive to do so. To the obedient He promises an eventual new creation which will NOT have the potential for evil; from which all rebellion will be barred. It will be populated by only those who have already chosen His (the creator's) way in this current creation.
However, what becomes of those who reject God and His promise?
Jesus describes their destiny in the terms of a garbage dump; using Gehenna, Jerusalem's dump as an illustration.
Like anything that does not fulfil its intended purpose, those who continue in rebellion against God' purpose for them will be thrown out as garbage.
This is NOT done arbitrarily. We ALL have the choice to recognise and respond to our creator in the way that He desires. But most prefer to go their own way and kick against any idea of there being a greater authority to whom they are accountable. Such is the arrogance of mankind. And hell is the ultimate result of ignoring personal accountability in a moral universe created by a Holy, Just and Righteous God
Tuesday, September 27, 2005
JUDGEMENT OR BIRTH PAINS
Recent events in New Orleans and the Gulf Coast have resulted in predictable claims that the city and/or the USA had come under the judgement of God. These claims came from diverse sources. Some Christians have joined in agreement with Al Quaeda in their views regarding the source of Hurricane Katrina. Regardless of the unliklihood of this "alliance", I find the claims to be disturbing. Not because I think God has no right to judge and punish unrighteousness; but because I know, that by His grace He has chosen a different way. Through the Lord Jesus Christ He has made a way for us to avoid the punishment we deserve because of our unrighteousness.
So what do we make of disasters such as Katrina? I believe that Paul gives us a clue in his letter to the Romans.
Romans 8:
19 For the earnest expectation of the creation eagerly waits for the revealing of the sons of God. 20 For the creation was subjected to futility, not willingly, but because of Him who subjected it in hope; 21 because the creation itself also will be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God. 22 For we know that the whole creation groans and labors with birth pangs together until now.
Jesus used similar imagery when He described the signs that would precede His return.
Matthew 24 (Amplified)
5 For many will come in (on the strength of) My name [ appropriating the name which belongs to Me], saying, I am the Christ (the Messiah), and they will lead many astray.
6 And you will hear of wars and rumors of wars; see that you are not frightened or troubled, for this must take place, but the end is not yet.
7 For nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom, and there will be famines and earthquakes in place after place;
8 All this is but the beginning [the early pains] of the birth pangs [of the intolerable anguish].
The time of the birth pains has been here for some time. The pains are being felt throughout the world. That means things will get worse as ungodly and unrighteous acts increase; and as natural disasters increase (due to human exploitation of the earth).
These added pressures will cause greater conflict between the believer and the unbeliever. Then conflict will arise between believers. At no other time will it be MORE important to make sure we are GOOD soil for the word of the gospel, to make sure we don't fall away. At no other time has it been more important that we know our God rather than knowing Religion. Those who cling to religion will turn further away from the Lord, and will join the world in persecuting the believers, justifying their acts with a religious veneer. Some will see themselves as serving GOD as they turn on the true believers. Look to the past for a pale imitation of what lies ahead. Look to those times when the judgmental attempted to pre-empt God by taking it upon themselves to determine who needed to experience God's wrath. The days of Inquisitions will be nothing compared with the Great tribulation experienced by the Lord's saints.
Matt 24
9 Then they will hand you over to suffer affliction and tribulation and put you to death, and you will be hated by all nations for My name's sake.
10 And then many will be offended and repelled and will begin to distrust and desert [Him Whom they ought to trust and obey] and will stumble and fall away and betray one another and pursue one another with hatred.
11 And many false prophets will rise up and deceive and lead many into error.
12 And the love of the great body of people will grow cold because of the multiplied lawlessness and iniquity,
13 But he who endures to the end will be saved.
14 And this good news of the kingdom (the Gospel) will be preached throughout the whole world as a testimony to all the nations, and then will come the end.
For those believing that the Great tribulation is God's judgement on the world after the rapture - prepare to be disappointed. Use the Lord's own words in Matthew 24 as your starting point for studying "end-time" prophecy. The great tribulation is directed AT the church by the unbelievers. God's wrath against the world is His response, delivering His vengeance on behalf of those who are persecuted and martyred, and comes after the tribulation.
Matt 24:
21 For then there will be great tribulation (affliction, distress, and oppression) such as has not been from the beginning of the world until now--no, and never will be [again].
22 And if those days had not been shortened, no human being would endure and survive, but for the sake of the elect (God's chosen ones) those days will be shortened.
Rev 6:
9 When the Lamb broke open the fifth seal, I saw at the foot of the altar the souls of those whose lives had been sacrificed for [adhering to] the Word of God and for the testimony they had borne.
10 They cried in a loud voice, O [Sovereign] Lord, holy and true, how long now before You will sit in judgment and avenge our blood upon those who dwell on the earth?
11 Then they were each given a long and flowing and festive white robe and told to rest and wait patiently a little while longer, until the number should be complete of their fellow servants and their brethren who were to be killed as they themselves had been.
God's wrath is the outpouring of punishment after a judgement of guilt has been made.
I have seen a false idea of judgement being held by believers, presupposing guilt. Judgement itself is the act of determining guilt or innocence. It is not the resulting punishment. We will ALL face judgement. Not all will face God's wrath.
As far as I can see, God's wrath under the New Covenant, is reserved for unbelievers AFTER death, when they will be sentenced to the second death. And also for those responsible for the persecution of Christians during the Great tribulation. Therefore God's wrath upon the living is reserved until AFTER the time of tribulation has been completed, when the full "quota" of martyrs has been fulfilled.
So what do we make of disasters such as Katrina? I believe that Paul gives us a clue in his letter to the Romans.
Romans 8:
19 For the earnest expectation of the creation eagerly waits for the revealing of the sons of God. 20 For the creation was subjected to futility, not willingly, but because of Him who subjected it in hope; 21 because the creation itself also will be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God. 22 For we know that the whole creation groans and labors with birth pangs together until now.
Jesus used similar imagery when He described the signs that would precede His return.
Matthew 24 (Amplified)
5 For many will come in (on the strength of) My name [ appropriating the name which belongs to Me], saying, I am the Christ (the Messiah), and they will lead many astray.
6 And you will hear of wars and rumors of wars; see that you are not frightened or troubled, for this must take place, but the end is not yet.
7 For nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom, and there will be famines and earthquakes in place after place;
8 All this is but the beginning [the early pains] of the birth pangs [of the intolerable anguish].
The time of the birth pains has been here for some time. The pains are being felt throughout the world. That means things will get worse as ungodly and unrighteous acts increase; and as natural disasters increase (due to human exploitation of the earth).
These added pressures will cause greater conflict between the believer and the unbeliever. Then conflict will arise between believers. At no other time will it be MORE important to make sure we are GOOD soil for the word of the gospel, to make sure we don't fall away. At no other time has it been more important that we know our God rather than knowing Religion. Those who cling to religion will turn further away from the Lord, and will join the world in persecuting the believers, justifying their acts with a religious veneer. Some will see themselves as serving GOD as they turn on the true believers. Look to the past for a pale imitation of what lies ahead. Look to those times when the judgmental attempted to pre-empt God by taking it upon themselves to determine who needed to experience God's wrath. The days of Inquisitions will be nothing compared with the Great tribulation experienced by the Lord's saints.
Matt 24
9 Then they will hand you over to suffer affliction and tribulation and put you to death, and you will be hated by all nations for My name's sake.
10 And then many will be offended and repelled and will begin to distrust and desert [Him Whom they ought to trust and obey] and will stumble and fall away and betray one another and pursue one another with hatred.
11 And many false prophets will rise up and deceive and lead many into error.
12 And the love of the great body of people will grow cold because of the multiplied lawlessness and iniquity,
13 But he who endures to the end will be saved.
14 And this good news of the kingdom (the Gospel) will be preached throughout the whole world as a testimony to all the nations, and then will come the end.
For those believing that the Great tribulation is God's judgement on the world after the rapture - prepare to be disappointed. Use the Lord's own words in Matthew 24 as your starting point for studying "end-time" prophecy. The great tribulation is directed AT the church by the unbelievers. God's wrath against the world is His response, delivering His vengeance on behalf of those who are persecuted and martyred, and comes after the tribulation.
Matt 24:
21 For then there will be great tribulation (affliction, distress, and oppression) such as has not been from the beginning of the world until now--no, and never will be [again].
22 And if those days had not been shortened, no human being would endure and survive, but for the sake of the elect (God's chosen ones) those days will be shortened.
Rev 6:
9 When the Lamb broke open the fifth seal, I saw at the foot of the altar the souls of those whose lives had been sacrificed for [adhering to] the Word of God and for the testimony they had borne.
10 They cried in a loud voice, O [Sovereign] Lord, holy and true, how long now before You will sit in judgment and avenge our blood upon those who dwell on the earth?
11 Then they were each given a long and flowing and festive white robe and told to rest and wait patiently a little while longer, until the number should be complete of their fellow servants and their brethren who were to be killed as they themselves had been.
God's wrath is the outpouring of punishment after a judgement of guilt has been made.
I have seen a false idea of judgement being held by believers, presupposing guilt. Judgement itself is the act of determining guilt or innocence. It is not the resulting punishment. We will ALL face judgement. Not all will face God's wrath.
As far as I can see, God's wrath under the New Covenant, is reserved for unbelievers AFTER death, when they will be sentenced to the second death. And also for those responsible for the persecution of Christians during the Great tribulation. Therefore God's wrath upon the living is reserved until AFTER the time of tribulation has been completed, when the full "quota" of martyrs has been fulfilled.
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